I am in the process of gathering Track and materials to finally build my layout. I am going with Walthers Shinohara switches (I have all the switches I need now) and now I am wondering what to use to switch them. I have seen lots of methods - between tortoise switch machines to caboose hobbies manual throws. I have several sidings and it is a double track main line. I need to keep this on a strict budget now as the switches alone required a large capital expenditure for this railroad! I was thinking of using the manual throws as it is cheap and more realistic to actually switch the track yourself. Any thoughts on this? The max depth on the layout is 3 feet so its not so hard to reach in to switch either.
The layout will be on both sides of a wall so I have also considered using some kind of under table machine for the switches that compliment each other on either side of the wall. This way I don’t have to worry about running around the other side to manually switch a switch.
I know Atlas makes a basic and affordable switch machine but is there anything else that would be better suited? I can afford $7-9 a piece but definitely not $18 - $20 a piece.
Sounds like you want electrical turnout machines, either DC or DCC. The TAM Valley Depot servo units with decode/control boards are $16 in quantity 10.
I use Tortoise machines for my Walthers-Shinohara turnouts. I love the slow-motion, and they are solid and reliable. They also have contacts which can be used to power frogs and drive signals. I’ve found that I sometimes have stall problems if I don’t power the frogs, so that’s an important feature. But, I am not on a tight budget, and I’ve only installed a half-dozen of these.
I also have Atlas and Peco turnouts, which I drive with the machines provided by those manufacturers. The Peco machine is meant for the Peco turnout, and will not work with any others. The Atlas machines could be mounted to control another turnout, but making them work with a thick sub-roadbed like 2-inch foam hasn’t proven successful, and otherwise they are surface-mount devices that don’t look particularly prototypical.
I don’t use ground throws, but I believe Caboose makes models with contacts for those who want to power their frogs.
I have just installed a lawnmower throttle cable assembly so that it operates my only remote/unreachable turnout. The throw lever is mounted on the outside frame of my helix, and the sheathed cable curves, going through two eyelets mounted on risers. The modified cable end runs through an inverted U small wooden block and is fixed with caulk to keep the sheath from moving. The cable end has a vertical upright bend and sharpened tip. It inserts into the closest hole on the Peco Code 83 throwbar.
All others are done handraulically with a thin kabob skewer.
I am running a double track mainline like you and am using Tortoise machines on all my mainline turnouts for cross overs and passing sidings. These will eventually be dispatcher controlled as well. For the rest of the turnouts I am using Caboose Industries ground throws. Now I am moving all of my ground throws to the front edge of the layout so I don’t have to reach into the scenery to throw the turnout. In order to do this I take a utility knife and cut a groove in the homasote from the turnout location to where the ground throw will be on the edge of the layout. I then connect the two with a stiff wire and then cover over the channel with a piece of drywall paper tape that I glue down along the edges to keep debris out of the channel. For ones that might need to be put in after the fact because I found I needed another turnout and there is track already in place between the turnout and the front of the layout I use a loooonnngg drill bit to slowly and carefully drill a hole back to the turnout. Now not all turnouts are reachable in this method and there are a couple of options for those that you can’t reach with the drill bit. You can use a BullFrog Manual Turnout control: http://www.handlaidtrack.com/BullFrog-Manual-Turnout-Control-s/2087.htm or do a search throw MR and find one of the several articles on how to build your own manual under the layout turnout controls.
I use Fast Tracks turnouts that have live frogs and operate them with Caboose Industries (CI) 222S ground throws so they properly switch polarity. As long as you install them correctly, the CI ground throws really push the points against the side rails, which pretty much eliminates derailments.
Cost: $4.00-$5.00 ea. Non-polarity changing ground throws would be $3.00-$4.00 ea.
As with many flip answers, not so useful. Since the Original Poster is using Walthers/Shinohara, there is nothing built into the turnout to hold the switch points against the stock rails. He’ll need something besides “his hand” to actuate and hold the points.
Tortoise machines work great and are easy to use. A little higher than the OP’s price range, but can be found less expensive in quantity. They’ll last a long time, not always the case with caboose throws. (which are also fine, but not the most robust.)
Thanks - I was going to say that - I need answers not weird suggestions - and you mentioned another point - that the walther’s switches need some kind of tension to keep the points aligned.
Another question - what is the norm for installing these switch machines? Have the rod go through the middle of the switch or out on the end where the throw would be?
I’ve installed most of my Tortoises directly below the center, but I offset one to the edge. I forget why. I did notice that some of my W-S turnouts have center-drilled holes, while others do not. One issue with Tortoise machines is that the under-table benchwork sometimes interferes with putting them where you want, so having a bit of wiggle-room for installation is sometimes useful.
As an experiment, exercise in modeling or whatever, I’d suggest getting one Tortoise and installing it. You’ll need a DC power source of 9-12 volts, and a double-pole, double-throw toggle switch, NOT momentary. When you get it all together, power it up and flip the toggle, and the points slowly move over to the other rail, note your impression. If it’s “wow, that’s really cool” like mine was, you’ll know the answer to your question.
I have about Forty Walthers/ Shinohara turnouts and I am using caboose throws. As I progress to finishing off an area they will be replaced with a more prototypical looking throw either working or a dummy type. Also I will go to powered machines in selected spots. The caboose don’t look that great but serve the purpose through the long building stage. At $2.00 a pop it is a cheap temporary solution that lets me run trains and throw switches.
I have run trains using DCC to control switches but I much prefer throwing them by hand.
Using a Tortoise (or servo) doesn’t mean using a DCC controller to actuate the switch. One can use a toggle or pushbutton on the fascia (or even on the layout deck). I’ve seen small toggles used on the layout deck that were less obtrusive than a caboose throw. These were used either to control a switch motor or via a bent-wire linkage to move the points directly (as well as electrically switching the frog).
I like between the rails as it makes the hole much less visible. But either works.
I agree, I wasn’t very clear in my response. I am hoping to have dummy switch stands with Tortoise switch machines. I really like fascia mounted toggles or push buttons for activation.[:)]
While being able to operate just about everything through a DCC controller is pretty neat, I like to use it for train control and little else. Constantly looking down at your controller to make sure the right activation numbers are up wears a little thin after a while.
I used Tortoises. They are pricy but I decided they were worth it. For electric power I came up with two 12 VDC wall warts from yard sales to provide a positive and a negative voltage. I installed red and green LED’s in series with the Tortoise motor to give an illuminated turnout position display on the fascia.
I drilled a 1/2 inch hole down thru the roadbed underneath the turnout BEFORE mounting the turnout. I spiked down the turnouts first, and then laid the flex track to mate up with the turnouts. I made up a hole locating jig with a 1/2" dowel that fits in the operating hole from underneath and has four holes to locate the mounting screws for the Tortoise. My layout is 2 inch foamboard and so I had to replace the operating wires with longer and thicker ones I made up from music wire.
If your layout is to be operated in walk around style (engineers walk along beside their trains) you can omit the Tortoise’s and throw the turnouts by hand. Peco turnouts come with an overcenter spring that holds the points against the stock rails, no switch machine needed. For over brands of turnout you can make overcenter springs from music wire. It’s a hairpin style spring with one end one the points throwbar and the over end secured to the middle of the track.
I cannot recommend the Atlas switch machines. They are not strong enough to reliably throw a turnout. They draw amperes of DC current which burns out the electrical switch used to control them. they look terrible mounted top side, and their wimpy action gets worse mounted undertable. They have no auxiliary contacts so you cannot power frogs or drive indicator lamps.
The BullFrog controls also have a micro switch allowing one to power a frog.
Try one of each and like MisterB said, see which one you enjoy, they all have advantages and disadvantages so it helps to experiment first before purchasing enough for your entire layout.
Many modelers start with Caboose ground throws with the intent of converting later. They put a large hole under the sliding points when they lay the turnout or retrofit is a headache later on.
I use twin coil machines run off of single pole double throw mini toggle switches. My operators like it because the snap lets them know that they are cleared.
I’ll probably never convert as many of my early hand laid stub switches need more power to hold over than a tortoise can deliver.
have you thought about making little over center springs from wire or paper clips? fast easy and pretty much bullet proof way to hand throw your switches. you can always change over to Caboose Industries ground throws or power switch machines later if you wish. i can’t post pictures on this site but if you will PM me with your email address, i will send you a couple of photos and instructions on how to make them.
I use “Blue Point” turnout controllers. They are manual push-rod type, but physically they look like a small Tortoise.
I fell in love with them on my last layout and will always use them. You can use model airplane flexible rods to go around curves, and you can easily throw them from several feet away.
At my Friendly Local Model RR Store I got a discount for ordering large quantities, and their price came out to about $8 each. After a bit of practice I could install one in ten minutes.
Make sure to do a bit of cleanup on your Walthers turnouts first, I found some of the throwbars had flash or burrs on them that increased the friction of the throw considerably.
