Chief, you’re killing me man! IF, and I mean IF I ever run a hot train through the siding you better believe I have a good reason for it. For instance running a train through the 40mph siding and switches instead of negotiating the 25mph on the main. If it weren’t for that other dispatcher down in JAX, 116 and 108 would never have even had to stop, but Terre Haute is where I get bent over my desk, and well you can use your imagination. [:D][(-D][:-,]
Ever see what a stalled police cruiser looks like after being hit by a light pusher set at 20 MPH? (State Highway Patrol now has some spare parts for its other Fix Or Repair Daily’s[:D]) Patrolman thought he was partially protected by a red signal. NOT!
There are two types of semaphore signals–upper quadrant and lower quadrant. Upper quadrant semaphores have arms (called blades) which go from straight up (green) to 45 degrees up (yellow) to horizontal (red). The Union Switch and Signal type S and T signals are examples.
Lower qudrant signals such as the US&S type B have two positions: horizontal (red), and about 20 degrees from straight down. To give three aspects, lower quadrant signals usually come with two signals per mast (a mast is a signal pole): a “home” signal, red or black with a square end, and a “distant” signal, yellow or black with a fishtail end, mounted below the home signal. The distant signal is for the blocks which, if occupied, would give a yellow on a three aspect signal, the home signal for the red block. For example, if the home signal was down but the distant signal was horizontal, the indication would be approach. Lower quadrant semaphores (the older type) have their heads (where the colored lenses are) counterbalanced so that the signal will automatically return to red.
Semaphores came about because at the time lantern lights were not sufficiently bright to be seen during the day. The SP used lower-quadrant semaphores extensively; the UP used them and upper quadrants. The Santa Fe liked upper quadrants; there are still many on the Raton and Glorieta Subdivisions in New Mexico.
Sincerely,
Daniel Parks
Too bad the COPS cameraman wasn’t there that day.[:I]
Did the cop try to write the crew a ticket? Wouldn’t surprise me if he did…I’ve heard some pretty good ones about local law enforcement and their poor knowlege of where their jourisdiction ends. Seen a couple first hand too.
Re: What road signals mean–I am SO confused! [D)] Would any of you more experienced folks help put me straight on all this signaling business? Am I right, almost right, or totally wrong in asserting the following:
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The three basic colors for RR road signals are red, yellow and green, and they stand for stop or prepare to stop, slow down or expect a change, or proceed as allowed (usually top speed for track).
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Some roads use a fourth “color,” white, called “lunar” in the trade. If flashing, it is a note to prepare to make a specific change. If not flashing, it is a notice that the next block or section of track will necessitate a change, but that the change is not spelled out explicitly.
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Semaphores are almost extinct, and therefore
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The commonest road configuration for signals is two over two: The left top is for the other track in the distance; the left bottom for the other track immediately ahead. The right top is for distance; the right bottom for the portion of track the train is on right now. This assumes the train is on the right-hand side of the main; if the train were on the left the significance of the left would be the same as it was for a right-hand train on the right.
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In CTC-controlled areas, the default signal color is red until dispatcher (who can be hundreds of miles away) clears the track to green. In normal operation, this is a visualization of the track warrant that the engineer may receive by radio. The old “flimsies” are pretty much a thing of the past.
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In ABS or block areas, the default color is green until a train or train occupies one or both tracks ahead. Typically a red signal ahead means that a train is occupying the next block; if it were yellow, it would mean the train is two blocks ahead.
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Red rarely means to make an absolute emergency stop. It usually means something like “await orders” or “proceed with care” or "proceed at [our railroad’s standard
Now that everyones pretty much confused the poor guy with light and semaphore signals, someone should now throw in ball signals to totally confuse him. [:I][:D]
Like Lucius Beebee, I prefer my highballs in the club car, thank you.
Is that where the genre of mixed-drink got its name, from RR signals??
al
Smalling in your #5 you hit on something. What you hit on was authority. In CTC authority is conveyed by signal indication or verbally. Verbally when they talk you by a signal. If you get track and time in CTC and you are stopped at a red block, you still need authority past that absolute. The D.S. will give you verbal authority past his red absolute into your limits.
Things to consider about signaling are the types of signals…what is it? Is it an absolute or an intermediate. They are distinguishable by #plate. An absolute has no number plate where as an intermediate will have a number plate. Intermediates act like signals in ABS. They convey track conditions and what to expect at the next block. The absolutes are usually controlled (I’ve seen signals in TWC/ABS that are not controlled and have no number plate. In that situation some GCOR rules come into play applicable in ABS…later on that). An absolute can act as an automatic block signal in CTC as well. For example. The D.S. is fleeting W.B. on M-1. Trains are running on each others block. At CP Bess, you see a hard yellow…The D.S. is not giving you a hard yellow, he simply has lined you thru that CP and that signal is telling you that that next signal may be red. It is acting like an intermediate (though it is NOT). It is simply conveying track conditions…proceed prepared to stop at the next signal, trains exceeding 30 mph must immediately reduce to that, blah blah blah (this is on my RR). If the next signal is a CP then you may not be lined thru or there may be a train in the block ahead of that signal. If the next signal is an intermediate then there probably is a train ahead, barring broken rail etc. If you are approaching a red intermediate there may be a few options. Stop and proceed at restricted speed, or if it is a grade signal proceed at restricted speed. These will not just pop up. You will have a sequence of aspects before coming up on an indication that will require a stop, restricted speed, diverging. A signal should
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626
Re: What road signals mean–I am SO confused! [D)] Would any of you more experienced folks help put me straight on all this signaling business? Am I right, almost right, or totally wrong in asserting the following:
-
The three basic colors for RR road signals are red, yellow and green, and they stand for stop or prepare to stop, slow down or expect a change, or proceed as allowed (usually top speed for track).
-
Some roads use a fourth “color,” white, called “lunar” in the trade. If flashing, it is a note to prepare to make a specific change. If not flashing, it is a notice that the next block or section of track will necessitate a change, but that the change is not spelled out explicitly.
-
Semaphores are almost extinct, and therefore
-
The commonest road configuration for signals is two over two: The left top is for the other track in the distance; the left bottom for the other track immediately ahead. The right top is for distance; the right bottom for the portion of track the train is on right now. This assumes the train is on the right-hand side of the main; if the train were on the left the significance of the left would be the same as it was for a right-hand train on the right.
-
In CTC-controlled areas, the default signal color is red until dispatcher (who can be hundreds of miles away) clears the track to green. In normal operation, this is a visualization of the track warrant that the engineer may receive by radio. The old “flimsies” are pretty much a thing of the past.
-
In ABS or block areas, the default color is green until a train or train occupies one or both tracks ahead. Typically a red signal ahead means that a train is occupying the next block; if it were yellow, it would mean the train is two blocks ahead.
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Red rarely means to make an absolute emergency stop. It usually means something like "await or
trainjunky, how in the world do you know so much about signaling. Your profile says highschool student. Are you a rail incognito?
Stupid question, but, with cab signals and other saftey features, won’t a locomotive do as it is suposed to do regardless of an engineer’s actions?
Yes, but not very smoothly. Also, except with very modern computer systems, there’s nothing to keep a train from running away on a grade (the overspeed will turn off the engine, but won’t apply the brakes, I believe). And please show me the computer that can start a 110 car train on a 2.2% grade in the rain.
No, just a foamer and rabid steam freak [:)]. Thanks though.
I felt that signalling was just something I should know, railfaning and volunteering on a steam locomotive. It also helps to sometimes know where trains are.
-Daniel Parks
Thanks guys, I’m learning. Any further comments will be appreciated too.
al
I have one Question? If most Railroads now use Cab Signals then what’s the use for way side Signals then? Why don’t just use the Cab Signals instead? Will we see the end of way side Signals along the Main lines? Allan.
From what I’ve read in different places far from everyone has cab signals. In some areas, only certain locomotives can lead because others are not properly equipped for the local signal system. With a traditional block occupancy signal system, about all you need to do is shunt the rails, which locomotives and cars do admirably.
As with the idea of using GPS for train location and control, relying only on cab signals leaves several potential holes in the reliability of the system.
On signalling in general - my experience is that you need to know both the general signalling rules for that railroad and the specifics for the location of the signal. From a railfans point of view, a given aspect will indicate that a train is coming, and from where (as in, which track), the kicker being that it might be in 2 minutes and it could be a half hour. I spent several hours at Folkston, GA. The signals just north of the viewing platform can provide a decent advance notice of some coming events. I just didn’t have time to learn what the aspects meant.
Redundancy for safety?
Metro-North’s Hudson Line between Grand Central and Poughkeepsie has no wayside signals save for dwarf signals on sidings. Other than that it’s strictly cab signals. Now what is the point of a dwarf signal? To conserve space in areas of close clearance?
A dwarf signal is the railroad response to the Americans with Disabilities Act. This is done so that vertically challenged rail employees have signals at eye leve. Incidentally, to clear up any confusion, many locomotive engineers respond to certain lunar aspects of signals by shooting them. This is known as shooting the moon. Not only that, but some employees forget to wear belts or suspenders to work. According to the GCOR I just happened to misinterpret, this means that they are displaying a semi lunar aspect and should be blue flagged.
Got all that? Good.
Erik