What do YOU consider the difference between Scratch-built and Kit-bashed???

[SeeYou190]

You are introducing new terminology before we have anything close to consensus about what the two terms introduced, words used for some time in the hobby, and which we are attempting to operationalize, themselves mean.

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OK. I did not mean to muddy these already murcky and cloudy waters.

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Like I said in my first response, none of this means anything to me. I always descibe my builds a “I built this model using parts from…”, and choose not to claim to be a scratchbuilder or a kitbasher.

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I just glue parts together until the model looks right.

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I still prefer the word “CONVERSION” to “SCRATCH BUILT” or “KITBASHED” because it just sounds less formal and more fun.

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-Kevin

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[IRONROOSTER]

The late MR editor Linn Westcott took issue with the evolving NMRA definition of scratchbuilding, because he felt their definition permitted too many purchased parts and features. Westcott was not a snob or purist but he was a stickler for correct vocabulary and he felt scratchbuilt meant everything was fabricated by the builder. Thus back in those days a scratchbuilt steam locomotive meant making your own drivers, frame, turning your own wheels. I think he permitted purchased motors and gears, but there WERE guys back then who, yes, made their own motors and cut their own gears. And their own structural shapes when making structures for that matter. But Westcott did not regard a structure that used commercial windows and doors to be scratchbuilt even if the entire rest of the structure was scratchbuilt.

I always thought that this definition was the right one and that what we now call scratchbuilding is really scratch/parts building.

One of my early efforts was scratch building a handcar shed. I actually built the handcar doors, side door, and two windows with shutters from scratch. It’s kind of fun to scratch build all the parts, even if it does take longer.

Scratchbuilding seems to have some kind of cachet attached to it. Which is why so many things are called scratch built even though they don’t match Linn’s definition above. But really, if you had fun building it and like the end result who cares what it’s called.

Paul

[yankee_flyer]

Hi

The coal shed, gravel bunkers, and pressure tanks are all built from scratch, For better or worse.

The propane and anhydrous ammoia are just PVC pipe.

I really enjoy all of the craftsmanship on this forum.

Cheers

Lee

[DavidH66]

This is a kitbash

This is a Scratchbuild

[IRONROOSTER]

This is a kitbash

This is a Scratchbuild

[(-D] [(-D] [(-D] [(-D]

By golly, there is a prototype for everything.[bow]

Paul

[Doughless]

I consider scratchbuilding to be when a modeler fashions the walls and roofs, or sides and roofs for rolling stock, out of raw or sheet material. Detail parts can be scratchbuilt from raw stock or factory-made. Motors and trucks usually aren’t scratchbuilt but can be part of a scratchbuilding project.

Kit bashing is taking already made walls, sides, and roofs and using them as raw stock for building a kit of primarily your own design.

[wjstix]

It is still a little surprising as an oldtimer to see NMRA contest winners where the description starts by saying the modeller “took a _____ kit and added detail parts, then decorated and weathered the model”. Winning models at one time had to be scratchbuilt - you could use pre-fab parts from different manufacturers (but would get less points than if you made them yourself), but you couldn’t start with a kit and just do a really good job building the kit.

BTW JJ I think you meant your interest ‘waned’ in your original post, not ‘feigned’. ‘Feigned’ means to deceive or pretend. [;)]

[riogrande5761]

This is a Scratchbuild

That scratchbuilt “critter” coupled to the D&RGW box car is actually in one of my books Colorful Colorado Railroads of the 1960’s.

I thought this topic was yet another “how many model railroaders can dance on the head of a needle” topic; but I see that I am woefully wron… wro… wr…

[maxman]

It is still a little surprising as an oldtimer to see NMRA contest winners where the description starts by saying the modeller “took a _____ kit and added detail parts, then decorated and weathered the model”. Winning models at one time had to be scratchbuilt - you could use pre-fab parts from different manufacturers (but would get less points than if you made them yourself), but you couldn’t start with a kit and just do a really good job building the kit.

I am of the opinion that it is sort of pointless to waste a lot of valuable time trying to figure out the difference between kit-building and scratch-building, at least in the year 2018. As an example, let’s assume we want to build a helium car like the one Cody assembled in a recent issue of MR.

So modeler #1 goes out and cuts a bunch of wood and throws all the parts in a box, and some of these parts will need to be cut to size at assembly. So he has a box of stix sticks. Modeler #2 is given an Ambroid kit for the same car, and this is definitely a box of sticks, some of which will need to be cut to size at assembly.

Do we call #1 a scratch-builder because he cut his own wood, and disqualify #2 because someone else (the woodchopper) cut the wood for him and he is therefore a kit-builder?

And what would happen if modeler #2 teams with the Woodchopper and they enter the contest together? Is the model entry kit-built or scratch-built? To determine a winner do the contest judges have to figure out who planted the tree the wood in the models came from? And shouldn’t we give some credit to the squirrel who left his nuts on the patio of the tree planter so that a tree could be scratch-built in the first place?

So many questions, so little time.

[IRONROOSTER]

So modeler #1 goes out and cuts a bunch of wood and throws all the parts in a box, and some of these parts will need to be cut to size at assembly. So he has a box of stix sticks. Modeler #2 is given an Ambroid kit for the same car, and this is definitely a box of sticks, some of which will need to be cut to size at assembly. Do we call #1 a scratch-builder because he cut his own wood, and disqualify #2 because someone else (the woodchopper) cut the wood for him and he is therefore a kit-builder?

So when I started out in the early 70’s the recommendation was to build a box of sticks kit as an intro to scratchbuilding. Which I did, a LaBelle box car. I then scratchbuilt a box car to use the printed cardstock paper sides that the NMRA Bulletin printed way back when. Since I used commercial parts like grab irons not to mention the printed sides, but bought and cut to size the roof, ends, floor, etc - I’m not sure what you call it. But it was a lot of fun.

Paul