What Do you think is the best mining locomotive

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
21

I assume from the post’s that English isn’t your native language? That’s fine, no problem there, but helps us to understand why you don’t know the jargon, slang, terms that most typical rail fans use.

Another thing though, is you are asking for a very specific answer to a question in which there is no answer.

There are no specific “mine locomotives”. Everything from SWitchers, to General Purpose (GP’s, GeePs), to Special Duty (SD’s), to any combination of drivers on steam locomotives were used for mine and mill work.

What is “best” is also a personal subjective term. What makes them “best” is based on opinion, and can and will vary from person to person. This makes it your choice. If you like SD-45’s, then by all means, use them to switch your mines and mills, cause they’ve been used on the real railroads to do such. That applies to pretty much any engine/locomotive you can think of.

22

I’m not new to model railroading, but i am new to n scale. Sorry if i do not take this as serious as all of you but this is just a hobby. You shouldnt have to workup a nerve because of one person who do not speak like an engineer., Everyone is different; some choose to use the terms and some dont.

23

First of all yes I speak perfect since I was born in the U.S.A and second I know I asked a question with no direct answer and that was the purpose of my post. If you look thru all the post there are different answers to the question. My post wasnt intended to be based on fact, I save that for the real world and it also does not hurt if people have different views on the topic.

Please if you and the other user want to try and bash me for asking a question that ask people about their opinion then you can stop posting on my post because with a hobby it’s more based on based experience than just fact.

24

Locos of many types have been used in the mining industry. Mining operations run from prosperous to near poverty level and the motive power used in most cases reflects that. I’ve seen everything from small switchers to heavy modern SD’s and AC’s used. The loco(s) used at a mine may be small 2 axle switchers to move cars around tight curves to the yard whare they can be picked up by a geep or an SD. From there they can be taken to their destination by a consist of geeps, SD’s or Ac’s. I frequently see unit coal trains being hauled on the KCS by ES44’s, Dash 8’s/9’s, SD40-2’s, SD50’s/60’s/70’s and sometimes KCS’s one and only SD45 is in the mix. A lot of times it looks like they grabbed whatever was free. One consist I saw had a GP38 on point followed by three SD40-2’s and an SW1500. Why the SW was there I can only guess. Maybe it was to be dropped somewhere or maybe it was there to round out the horse power needed. The point is, there’s no specific type.

25

Details are missing.

What is being mined? What period is the road? Is the mine a huge industrial operation, (5000 acre open pit copper mine?), or is it a small mine tucked away in a mountian cove?

Already discussed is that railroads served only large established mines and would not consider laying rail to any mine that could not warrant a continuous stream of revenue to the road.

Only giant mines had their own switch engines, none of which ever entered the mines. These were used to shunt and spot cars on ready tracks for the larger main road engines to make up consists off the property. (Coal is an example of this)

True mine engines, operating inside the mines, if they a mine even had them, were almost always electric, low slung, pancake forms running off overhead cantenary wires. these pulled rather smallish ore cars out of the mine to the ore bins where they were dumped and in most cases were hauled off by large trucks to the mill miles away and not formal railroad cars, unless a rail line was nearby.

I assume your mine is of a size that it would have its own ore cars and yard apart from a formal mainline railroad. In this case, if you are modeling in the 30’s onward you might select one of the many light ton diesels already noted. If earlier, an 0-4-0, 0-6-0 tank engine or camel back might be OK.

Shays, vulcans and climax steam engines would almost never be a viable choice for mining operations unless special conditions warranted it.

26

It open to them all. My layout is going to be built have a coal mine shaft with only the cars going into the mine and a locomotive waiting on a siding. My mining, lumber, and steel mill layout model from 2008-to the present.

27

Respectfully, I disagree. I don’t k now the types either. I can’t tell you what air horn that is by hearing it, nor could I walk you through anythinng but basic steam loco arrangements. You know what? I still am enjoying the same trains. If the horn sounds bad, then while I don’t know which type it is, I styill know a painful sound when I hear it.

Anyway, on topic, my first thought on mining was a Shay. UP and WM used them for that. for modern equipment eras, you’re probably looking at fgirst gen stuff: the GP7-9s, maybe the SDs. The engines are rugged, easy to maintain due to their mechanical simplicity, and darned near bulletproof.

For the late 50s, the NWR club is using an S1 that was aquired by the mine from the used market. If you dig, or I could find it, but I have a thread asking about mining engines.

Sorry, I’m no help on steel mills.

28

Gotta go with the Bo-Bo…[:-^]

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RE: “Sorry if i do not take this as serious as all of you but this is just a hobby. You shouldnt have to workup a nerve because of one person who do not speak like an engineer., Everyone is different; some choose to use the terms and some dont.”

I think what these posters were trying to point out is that model railroading, as just about every other human endeavor, has its own vocabulary which then allows us to communicate with one another. The “Introduction to Sociology/Psychology/Biology/whatever” class in college will be basically a terminology class to introduce the student to the common language that will be shared as a baseline in later studies. If the doctor tells you that you now have cancer, you will want to learn the terminology associated with that disease and its treatments if you have any interest in helping yourself through the crisis. If you are learning to dance, you will first have to learn the words that describe that form of dance. Young people may refer to every train as a “choo choo”, but those interested in trains learn the vocabulary to allow us to discuss “Alco vs FM”, “Mikado vs Decapod”, or “BB vs CC”.

Folks here will try to help all newcomers learn, but they do not regard their knowledge and understanding as frivolous. We can all choose whether or not to follow advice, but a recommendation to learn what we are talking about would seem to be appropriate to most.

Bill

30

I would say a modern shaft mine is not going to have any visible mining cars going into the shaft. That would all be inside, what would be outside would be the tipple where open hopper or ore cars would be pushed under to fill. Personally I like the original mini-kits coal mine, rebranded AHM Coal Mine, now rebranded as Model Power “Old Time Coal Mine”. It was the center piece of my N-Scale layout. Probably too old for you. I might recommend the Walther’s “New River Mine”. It is much more modern looking.

Anyway a locomotive for this would probably be an older locomotive that the real railroads were replacing. The big copper mine in Ely used to use RS-3s when all the railroads had gong to 2nd generation power. So in you case 2008 would have been when all the GP35, GP38, GP40, U33C, B36-7, C36-7, SD45, and SD40-2s were in that same 2nd owner type situation. So I guess it would depend on wealthy the mine is. The bigger locomotives in this list would be overkill for one small mine. You know an MP15 would be 28 years old and about the right size for a 3-4 track big shaft mine…

On the other hand if your “shaft mine” is one of the big ones like Summerset and Bowie, then it doesn’t need its own switcher. The main line power never uncouples from the unit train. It just pulls the whole thing through the tipples. I’ve always thought Walther’s Valley Cement could be modified to represent a coal mine operation using the unit train approach.

I don’t know what you have in mind for a lumber railroad. Modern day lumbering is a far cry from the normal lumbering operations that model railroad

31

LMD. Manning Back when iron ore had a high iron content before it was all mined out the switch engines traveled right down in to the open pit mines with the cars. They were mostly 0-8-0 and 0-6-0 switch engines but other types were used also. Labor was cheap and they laid track tore it up and relaid track all the time. Even the steam shovels that loaded the cars were on rails. Look for photos of the mahoning mine was one of the bigger ones with there own switchers also hull rust mine.there are many others. Bill

32

[quote user=“Texas Zepher”]

Mr. LMD:
It open to them all. My layout is going to be built have a coal mine shaft with only the cars going into the mine and a locomotive waiting on a siding. My mining, lumber, and steel mill layout model from 2008-to the present.

I would say a modern shaft mine is not going to have any visible mining cars going into the shaft. That would all be inside, what would be outside would be the tipple where open hopper or ore cars would be pushed under to fill. Personally I like the original mini-kits coal mine, rebranded AHM Coal Mine, now rebranded as Model Power “Old Time Coal Mine”. It was the center piece of my N-Scale layout. Probably too old for you. I might recommend the Walther’s “New River Mine”. It is much more modern looking.

Anyway a locomotive for this would probably be an older locomotive that the real railroads were replacing. The big copper mine in Ely used to use RS-3s when all the railroads had gong to 2nd generation power. So in you case 2008 would have been when all the GP35, GP38, GP40, U33C, B36-7, C36-7, SD45, and SD40-2s were in that same 2nd owner type situation. So I guess it would depend on wealthy the mine is. The bigger locomotives in this list would be overkill for one small mine. You know an MP15 would be 28 years old and about the right size for a 3-4 track big shaft mine…

On the other hand if your “shaft mine” is one of the big ones like Summerset and Bowie, then it doesn’t need its own switcher. The main line power never uncouples from the unit train. It just pulls the whole thing through the tipples. I’ve always thought Walther’s Valley Cement could be modified to represent a coal mine operation using the unit train approach.

33

You are certainly entitled to do what you want.

But the general scheme for logging with railroads went something like this.

Land with suitable trees already grown on it was acquired by the lumber company. Until trucks were suffciently powerful, the easiest and cheapest way to get the felled trees out of the forest was by railroad. Spurs were extended as close as possible. If there was a suitable river, the river would be preferred to railroad. Depending on era, a system was used to get the logs to the “landing” where the logs would be loaded on to log cars.

The railroad (or truck or river) was used to transport the logs to the sawmill (or pulp mill or other user of logs). The preferred way to store logs at the mill was a log pond. At the mill, the raw wood was converted into a usable wood product. The wood product (usually lumber) was generally shipped out by rail, but it might not be the same railroad. In general, in the Pacific Northwest, the forests would be in the coastal mountains, the sawmills would be near the mouth of a river or creek, and the finshed lumber or product would be loaded onto ships, with rail transport from mill to harbor.

Logging camps were located along the railroad in the forests, and were moved as areas being cut moved.

Hope this helps; logging is a fascinating subject with many good resources.

Fred W

34

Let’s try to turn this back to the original question.

Depends on the size of your mine/mill.

In modern times most steel mills use EMD, Alco, or Baldwin four axle switchers. GE 70 and 44 ton switchers tend to be too light duty. Most are in the 1000 to 1500 HP range, or MU’d if smaller.

In the old days 0-6–0 and 0-8-0 switchers were common.

In their iron mines, USS used a lot of four axle switchers, same as above. The Missabe Railroad Historical Society, www.missabe.com, has a full roster of USS iron mining locomotives. Prior to that they used 0-8-0 switchers, including some of the most powerful 0-8-0’s built. They started converting to diesel before WWII.

Erie Mining used Alco RS 11’s and C420’s in the pit, supplemented with Baldwin VO 1000 switchers.

The other natural ore mines around here used 0-6-0’s, 0-8-0’s, and a few steeple cab electrics when they ran rail directly into the pits. By the diesel era, most had converted to trucks in the pits.

The mine yards and processing plants on the Mesaba were switched by commercial railroads, DMIR and GN. Both favored consolidations and mikes for mine runs and very large steam power (2-10-4, 2-6-8-0, 2-8-8-0, 2-8-8-2, and 2-8-8-4’s among others) for mainline runs to Duluth/Superior.

In Diesel times, GN and Missabe both used SD-7/9’s for mine runs. Missabe used SD-9’s for mainline runs while GN preferred F-7’s.

I hope this gives you somewhere to start. To the others, give a newbie a break. The only dumb questions are ones that aren’t asked.

35

Actually railroad speak is easy to learn…Only Model Railroading speak is hard because we use some terms the railroaders don’t and many of the hobby words is completely worthless.

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37

Hi Folks

I’m modeling N myself. And it just so happens that I’m currently working on the part of my layout that will be housing a coke works and steel mill.

So far I have four steel mill locos, two in-house switchers and two road switchers, plus a couple of cabs that we have converted to road crew quarters for when the crew is away over night getting ore.

Here are the two switchers

Here are the two road switchers

Here are some items of rolling stock

The newer scheme

The modern ore wagons

Hope these give you some ideas.

Regards

Bill

38

Ok, I suck at posting pictures.

Don’t know what happened there.

Sorry, will have another go if I can work out what went wrong. :frowning:

Regards

Bill

39

Depending on the mining region it could have been anything, really.

On my layout I have a small mine that utilizes a couple of Bachmann N scale H16-44’s…But one can also use things like Mark Pierce’s idea of actual mine locomotives as well…if you are modeling an actual mine operation…[:D]

BTW…Mark…where did you get those shots from?

40

http://www.ripleysghosttowns.com/pinecreekmine.html

Wheeler ridge, east of Fresno, California.

Smile,
Stein