Life-Like gets a lot of praise on this site, it is just in the form of P1K and P2K.
I have 2 P2K SD60Ms, 2 P2K SD60s and 2 P2K GP30s. I really like all of them. Like most people, I had a Life-Like loco. It was a F40 with the single truck motor. The shell is now on an Atlas GP 40. The buildings are real nice. Rolling stock is the same as Bachmann and Tyco. You have to plug the truck hole and mount Athearn trucks and body mount KDs.
We slam all the entry-level stuff pretty equally. Bachmann gets it pretty good, as does Tyco. We are not just picking on your stuff.
Most entry-level stuff is designed to get you into the hobby, not keep you in it. As your skills and finances improve, you will move on to better quality stuff, as we all have. We all started out where you are at one time or another. I started with a Tyco set.
Have fun with your trains and keep the questions coming.
Many moons ago there was a really meaty conversation about the apparent lack of new blood coming into the hobby. It seemed that almost all the Newbies were like me, 40 somethings that had trains as a kid, and now had some time and money to spend on the hobby. One of the themes of that thread was that “cheap” trainset equipment from LifeLike and Bachmann was potentially damaging to the hobby as folks would soon tire of un-reliable equipment. I am not sure that I subscribe to that theory, but I think that there may be some validity. From my own experience, I quickly discovered that I did not want to run LifeLike basic equipment. My one diesel has no flywheel, minimal wheel pickup, is very noisy and runs very poorly. I soon found that for very little more money, I could get Proto 2K units at train shows and on e-bay. There is no comparison in my mind. Now the LifeLike freight cars have been just fine. Mine all have metal wheels now, Kadee’s and have be weighted, weathered and in the case of gondolas, had loads installed. I thoroghly enjoyed getting them to that state and they are running happily on the layout with much higher end equipment. I think to be fair, that most of us middle aged modellers would prefer to spend the extra buck on a better level of model, but that does not mean that they can not be enjoyed, and be a platform to move onto more advanced levels of the hobby. The great news is that if you are on a tight budget, these LifeLike and Bachmann cars can be picked up for very little money 2nd hand at trains shows. Think of them as a low cost blank canvas that you can flex your modelling muscle on, and you can create some fine rolling stock.
The more expensive LifeLike locomotives - i.e. Proto 1000 and 2000 lines - are better and can be had at or near the price of the cheaper Trainset line. You just have to know where to shop. I bought my Proto 2000 S1switcher (regularly $110) from Trainworld.com for $29.99. It flat out crawls. It also depends what era of locomotive you are looking for.
Hmm, I just wonder what a few $$ means to a guy in his 30’s or 40’s as compared to a young man about 13 with no job and maybe $20 to his name from cutting grass. It’s all about perspective. I went to G scale because I can now afford to do so. $300 for a loco and $80 for a box car does not hurt me much, but when I was 13 or so I had Tyco and Life-like because it was all I could afford or could get on the $5 a week allowance I got. Try to keep the answers in perspective of the person asking.
Telling Alexander to spend more money to buy better stuff is not the best answer I can think of. Encouraging him to be creative with what he has is a better route to travel. Great model railroads are built from the imagination, not purchased out of a box.
Yes, there are many great locos out there, and we all know quality cost money, but why aren’t we all driving a BMW or Viper? Can’t afford one and have to drive your “junk” Mustang instead? Maybe you should get rid of that “junk” F150 and buy a “real” truck like an H2 Hummer. Speaking of that, get rid of that “junk” house you live in and buy a beach condo, after all it’s built of better materials. Same thing is happening with this hobby. Seems like everybody has “junk” except for the ones who don’t.
Sure, in a few months, maybe a year, he will have saved up enough money to buy a better loco, but what about in the mean time? Will he always be dissapointed every time he runs the only “junk” loco he owns? How is that positive for the hobby? Maybe in a few months of running “junk” he’ll decide this hobby is too expensive and move on.
first of all i did call my L-L junk after i mentioned it’d outpull the U-boat, but , yes L-L is excellent way to start the hobby (it’s how i started) but it won’t be long before it becomes “low-end” for most people- i was trying to say “it’s great to get you rolling, but don’t buy them forever” once you’ve had something higher-end you’ll get rid of the L-L as fast as you can. Don’t take my earlier post the wrong way, but i just wanted out new guy to know this stuff isn’t exactly high-end.
I will add this. The “cheap” stuff did help me be a better modeler. As already stated a few times, I had no problem cutting a few up to try some new techniques. One of the best and worst attempts at weathering were on the same care. One side came out great, the other side, well, you get the picture.
I think my entry level Tyco, AHM, LL, and Bachman stuff taught me alot about how to find and cure problems. But they really let me have fun too. In some ways I miss the, innocence?, of those train sets.
On the subject of weight: perhaps the Lionel Challenger isn’t overweight, but the weight
doesn’t seem to help it any. Some careful drawbar tests I did showed that my Challenger
could exert 2.4 oz force, while my LL Clinchfield matched it with 2.5 oz. I had heard
reports about how little such a heavy loco seemed able to pull, but getting one and testing
it proved they were right. My first Challenger also weaved from side to side, and it was
exchanged for one a little better. I like it anyway.
I have two Proto 2000 steamers and they don’t pull for poop–especially since they cost me quite a bit initially. Other than that, I’ve not done any dealing with Lifelike. Not likely to in the future, either.
Tom [xx(]
As brand names, the words ‘Proto 2000’, ’ P2K’, ‘Proto 1000’, or ‘Proto’ are not in my vocabulary. This is all LIFE-LIKE stuff, pure and simple. I have lots of Life-Like locos, and they all run good.
As for the ‘train set’ or ‘toy train’ stuff that Life-Like makes, I have a name for that … DEATH-LIKE!
Bachmann Spectrum has most of its line with wired tenders. P2K’s 0-8-0 has it on latest sound issue model**(expensive)**. For alexandert3 this could be an important consideration. Do agree with other forum members who cite little pulling power for P2K steam although only steamer I have is P2K 0-8-0. No complaint with pulling power of P2K diesels; have only covered wagon models.
I’ve got P2K, Spectrum, Genesis, IHC and BLI. I would never ever consider putting BLI shells on P2K mechanisms(if possible). I’ve apparently been very lucky with these purchases because problems referenced on the forum for each line I have not (so far) experienced. BLI’s are my best runners-for the price they should be.
It’s possible as one forum member stated on another thread that manufacturers all have (had?) sporadic quality issues. Anyone getting started would be well advised to get most locomotive he can afford; trainset stuff is not the way to start out. [tdn] Could be more of a turn off than a turn on to the hobby. JMHO
i say if a trainset is say $50? why not get a P2K S1 from trainworld for $29.99 and a couple of freight cars and a loop of track and your rolling… better value than that life like junk.
but hey my first trains where hand me downs, a bachmann J class, Rivarossi hudson, and a few british models, but i also bought a LL train set, that was a waste of time, i threw it out after a couple of weeks, it was absolute junk!. now i own P2K, Atlas,spectrum and never looked back… my freight cars are, athearn, atlas, bachmann,P2K… now i want to get some Athearn RTR GP35s and some BLI and im set.
While you guys are talking about your experiences in HO scale, LL has been a real benefit to us in N-scale. For the past few years they have stepped up and produced some solid N-scale locos at reasonable prices. In fact most of my loco roster is LL.
However there now seems to be widespread concern over the purchase of LL by Walthers. It’s been a longstanding perception that Walthers is not really dedicated to N-scale, and now that they have LL, all we have seen is the prices go up on the latest releases that LL announced before being purchased. In fact, and please correct me if I’m wrong, we have not seen any new N-scale announcements from LL since Walthers purchased them.
So we wait and hope that Walthers will not erase the niche that LL held in N-scale.
There is no question that both Lifelike and Bachmann have come a long ways with their spectrum and P2K lines. While I hesitate to call something junk because that might be all someone can afford. Much of their trainset stuff has been of such poor quality that I am afraid that we have lost many people from this hobby simply because they bought it, brought it home, it didn’t work right, they threw it out and now they fly model airplanes or build model ships or collect stamps. Athearn engines are vastly superior for the money. - Nevin
dingoix,
Bottom line here son, is everytime someone puts a post up about needing a part, or advice, or simple questions about an older or MR loco or car, you seem to throw the word “junk” at it. You need to go back and look at allot of your post that focus on Tyco, Bachmann, Model Power, and some of the older MR manufactures. And lets not forget P2K that took a simple beating from a bunch of members to point out to you about P2k not being your labeled “junk” as you called it.
I feel sorry for people that ask a question or are new to the hobby, and you turn around and you throw the word “junk” at them. Some how I cannot get you to understand this, so keep up the good work and scare as many people away from MR as you can.
So it seems the “expert” has nothing running. Interesting, very interesting. If you need track, email me and I’ll send you about $200 worth of Atlas track, assuming you don’t think it’s “junk”.
Sadly Life Like P2K locomotives has issues from being slow runners to the crack gear problem to detail flaws…Now I am reading that LL QC has been hit and miss.Who can easily forget that ton of grease that LL use in the gear boxes?
Its sad to think I had to replace gears in 29 P2K Geeps and these older Geeps are still out there being bought by the unsuspecting modeler.Will Walthers replace these faulty gears as they show up for free? I suspect Walthers will follow their policy of replacing broken or missing parts for free.
Now the days of 29.99 and $39,99 P2K locomotives will draw to a close due to the recent price hikes of the P2K engines.
On the bright side I still fully believe that the Walthers P2K Geeps are the best detailed on the market.[:D]