When a locomotive is out on the mainline working,
1- Would the crew pick up cars (from industries) and place them on the front or the rear of their train?
2- Are the cars that they are setting out always right behind the locomotive?
3- Are there variations from one railroad to another in their rules concerning this?
4- Have things changed, concerning setting out and picking up cars, from steam engine/caboose days to today’s method of doing things?
Jarrell
As a conductor for NS, i can give some insight to your questions…
1- Would the crew pick up (from industries) and place them on the front or the rear of their train?
it is easier to place pick-up cars at the front of the consist (there are exceptions). everytime a car is added to the consist, a class 1 brake test must be completed. after the test, it is a pain to walk 20-30-50 cars to the head end.
2- Are the cars that they are setting out always right behind the locomotive?
depends how the train is built. a seasoned conductor will build their train depending on the customer list: sometimes at the front or rear depending on a whole list of variables.
3- Are there variations from one railroad to another in their rules concerning this?
i can only speak (unoffically) for NS
4- Have things changed, concerning setting out and picking up cars, from steam engine/caboose days to today’s method of doing things?
the techniques are still the same for setting out and picking up cars. where the cars are placed in the consist is critical with the HAZMAT rules. going from a 4 man crew to a 2 man crew …well, it just takes longer to get things done.
it is hard to explain everything when it comes to car placement. the variables are endless: who gets serviced 1st, 2nd, 3rd; what is the track profile further ahead (loads at the head or rear?); HAZMAT placement; how does the 1st customer switch affect the following customers swithing; is it a oneway trip or is it a out and back trip (what direction do i need to be going); do these cars go with me to the end terminal or do they get set off at an interchange;
setting off and picking up cars is the easy part. deciding how to build the train consist AND knowing how each stop sill affect you
So if I understand right, you only need to do a walking insepection on the cars you;ve picked up then? The rest of the train relies on the terminal and (if there even is such a thing) the readout from the EOT on pipe pressure?
Thanks Wazzzy for the information. Would you mind elaborating on your second answer just a little more? Maybe a couple of examples?
Btw, hope you get that 1500 sf basement empire soon!
Jarrell
[quote user=“Wazzzy”]
As a conductor for NS, i can give some insight to your questions…
1- Would the crew pick up cars (from industries) and place them on the front or the rear of their train?
it is easier to place pick-up cars at the front of the consist (there are exceptions). everytime a car is added to the consist, a class 1 brake test must be completed. after the test, it is a pain to walk 20-30-50 cars to the head end.
2- Are the cars that they are setting out always right behind the locomotive?
depends how the train is built. a seasoned conductor will build their train depending on the customer list: sometimes at the front or rear depending on a whole list of variables.
3- Are there variations from one railroad to another in their rules concerning this?
i can only speak (unoffically) for NS
4- Have things changed, concerning setting out and picking up cars, from steam engine/caboose days to today’s method of doing things?
the techniques are still the same for setting out and picking up cars. where the cars are placed in the consist is critical with the HAZMAT rules. going from a 4 man crew to a 2 man crew …well, it just takes longer to get things done.
it is hard to explain everything when it comes to car placement. the variables are endless: who gets serviced 1st, 2nd, 3rd; what is the track profile further ahead (loads at the head or rear?); HAZMAT placement; how does the 1st customer switch affect the following customers swithing; is it a oneway trip or is it a out and back trip (what direction do i need to be
ok, its easier to show than to explain…
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a class 1 brake test MUST be completed at the intitial terminal before the train is allowed to depart. this is usually done by the car department but can be done by the train crew. big yards use the car department and the smaller yards without the support elements will complete the required test themselves. a class 1 brake test includes: verifying air pressure to the End of Train Device (EOTD), verify the EOTD is communicating with the Head of Train Device (HOTD), verify the HOTD can initiate an emergency dump of the brake pipe pressure from the EOTD, amount of air leakage thru the entire train consist, ensure all cars can apply and release their air brake systems.
when picking up cars along the route, added cars get the same (general) brake test but without repeating certain steps. the EOTD will ‘relink’ with the HOTD once the air lines are reconnected and pressure is restored. the crew still needs to verify the application and release of the air brakes on the cars picked up. this is easiest when adding them to the head end of the consist (less walking for the conductor). there are exceptions to the placement of cars with the HAZMAT rules or specific car types (too much to explain here).
when building the train consist at the initial terminal, the conductor considers the entire route and customers to be serviced. generally the train is built with the cars at the head end for the 1st customer, nest set of cars for the 2nd customer and so forth. this works best when the train is heading ONLY in one direction.
Generally a freight train that isn’t a unit train (all cars of the same type, going to the same place) will be “blocked”, arranged in a logical order so the cars going to point A are next to each other, the cars going to B are next to each other etc. On a way freight, it might be set up so the cars for the first industry the train will reach will be at the front of the train, the cars for the second industry behind the first etc. to the end. A good crew will know what works best for their train and the line their on, so the order could be different to meet specific situations…if the last industry you reach has a short run-around track to serve a facing point spur, you might want to put those cars up front to make it easier to do the switching moves requires. Plus as noted, some cars are/were restricted as to where they could be placed (don’t put a wooden boxcar of gunpowder or dynamite behind right behind the steam engine!).
Thanks to both Wazzzy and Stix for the information. I asked the questions for a couple of reasons, first just my curiosity about how things are done, generally speaking. Second, at times I hold ops sessions here on my layout and prototype information is always good for the operators. I, of course, have both facing and trailing point pickups and setouts to do. Usually we run an EB and a WB, each one working only TP PUs and SOs for convenience and speed. I have 3 side tracks that could be used for run around purposes. I think the next session will be different, one train working both TP and FP spurs but I needed more info and how the real railroads did it.
They may even have to do their own brake checks before leaving the yard! I don’t think I could simulate that! [^o)]
Thanks again for you help!
Jarrell
1- Would the crew pick up cars (from industries) and place them on the front or the rear of their train?
Probably on the front of the train. If it is a through freight then the pick up of a block of cars would go in block.
2- Are the cars that they are setting out always right behind the locomotive?
Not after the first pick up. If in step 1 you picked up 5 cars on the head end, the cars for your next stop are now 5 cars deep in the train.
3- Are there variations from one railroad to another in their rules concerning this?
Really not much in the rules regarding how conductors do their work. They do have to do the required brake tests (national), comply with hazmat placement rules (mostly national), comply with train placement rules (varies by road), comply with excessive dimension load placement rules (varies by road), etc. Normally with a local switching industries, it is at the conductor’s discretion on how he arranges the cars in his train and how he does his work.
4- Have things changed, concerning setting out and picking up cars, from steam engine/caboose days to today’s method of doing things?
Sure. Most locals 40 years ago had a 5 man crew ( engineer, fireman, conductor and 2 or 3 brakemen) and a caboose. Today it is normally 2 or 3 men (engineer, conductor, brakeman or engineer, conductor) and no caboose.
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Almost. Any cars that were given an initial terminal brake test and have been detached from an air supply for 4 or more hours must be given a new initial terminal brake test when put in a train.
Cars set out at industry have been detached from an air supply for over 4 hours. They have to be given the full initial brake test. The air has to be charged, leakage tested, brake set made, inspection of each car to make sure the brakes have set an there were no cars with excessive brake travel, then the brakes released and the cars inspected to make sure all the brakes have released.
Normally its not going to take you more than four hours to work an online industry, so the cars on the rest of the train are still considered a “solid block” under the Federal power brake law. They have to have the brake line charged to proper pressure, leakage checked, brakes applied and then the brakes released. The application is indicated by the air pressure dropping on the EOT and release is indicated by the pressure rising on the EOT.
So…, it’s the conductor that makes up a train and not the yard crew? Anyone?
Jarrell
In a yard the yard crew makes up the train. When not in a yard the conductor makes up the train.
I will let you in on a little secret.
Railroad employees are allowed to talk to each other.
Even though the yard crew makes up the train it will not break any rule if the conductor talks to the switch foreman and tells him he would like the Johnsonville cars on the rear the switch foreman will put the Johnsonville cars on the rear.
Once they leave the yard the conductor can arrange his work and put the cars anyplace he wants in the train in order to do his work.
Dave, thanks for letting me in on the ‘secret’! [;)] I noticed one of the more experienced guys in our ops session using a passing siding to rearrange some cars for some upcoming setouts. He was using the time that he had to wait for an opposing train to finishing working a spur he had to get by. Made his job a lot easier on down the track.
Jarrell
Is the crew stripped down to one (the engineer only) if the engine is remote controlled? On youtube are some videos that look like the engineer has the remote control in front and watches the engine coupling on a car.
Is that a procedure used at yards only or do they “send out” a one man crew to serve industries too?
Jarrell,There are union work rules that would forbid this since you are talking about 2 different job classes and job qualifications…I doubt a road conductor knows any yard tracks beyond the arrival and departure tracks…
However,the yard conductors would know how conductor Willy likes his train built and would build it in that order as a courtesy since there is no company or union work rules stating cars has to be blocked according to the local conductor.
If there was a yard conductor that didn’t like Willie well just to bad about any courtesy blocking.
As far has 1 man crew on a local I haven’t seen that yet-NS and C&FE still uses 3 men crews.
For what’s it worth I am told by a highly reliable source that there is a average of 4 sideswipes a week in the Bellevue yard from where the belly pack operators can not see his locomotive…
So far only some transit “trains” (light rail vehicles) have one person crews.
Radio controlled jobs I have seen are normally a conductor and a brakeman.
The only one man RCL jobs might be in an industrial application or some non-union shortline or switching contractor, they certainly aren’t on a unionized Class 1, regional or shortline.
1- Would the crew pick up cars (from industries) and place them on the front or the rear of their train?
Absolutely.Why do unnecessary work? However,there is a price to be paid…sooner or later you will need to rearrange your train into working order.
2- Are the cars that they are setting out always right behind the locomotive?
Not always most conductors would want their facing point or return setouts on the rear of the train.
3- Are there variations from one railroad to another in their rules concerning this?
All railroads have similar rules.
4- Have things changed, concerning setting out and picking up cars, from steam engine/caboose days to today’s method of doing things?
From my observation of today’s locals the 3 men crew does the same basic job but,differently then we would have with 3 men and a caboose.
From local freights on a couple of eastern roads back in the “caboose era”.
If a yard crew was on duty at the initial terminal they would make up the train, blocking the cars for each station together but not necessarily in any particular order except to position special placement cars (dangerous cars, scale test cars, etc.) properly.
Once the train got out of the yard it was up to the conductor how to set up the work. As has been noted in other posts sometimes there was a good location along the way to shift out the train to make things easier. Sometimes not…
If there were facing point spurs to be worked and a runaround wasn’t nearby, they might shove the cars ahead of the engine or else swing the cars by the engine (often called a flying switch). If the grades worked out they might use gravity to drop the cars downhill past the engine.
Other than cars requiring special placement it didn’t matter what order the cars were in coming in to the final terminal, as the train was going to be classified anyway.
Local freight paid a couple dollars a day more than through freight, but a lot of conductors tried to stay away from the locals because of all the work (and aggravation) involved.
Re operating sessions, keep in mind the real trains sometimes when working a branchline will tuck some cars away to work on the return trip. The line I grew up along they’d do that sometimes, leave some cars at a run-around track and then go north to switch those industries. Then they could pick up the cars they left behind and switch them out on the way back. Plus once in a while they’d run with a few cars behind the caboose if it speeded up switching…in fact, seems to me once or twice they even had cars in front of the engine!! But again this is a very low speed dead-end branchline.
"Plus once in a while they’d run with a few cars behind the caboose if it speeded up switching…in fact, seems to me once or twice they even had cars in front of the engine!! "
I was watching a video with a buddy at his house one night, and since he models N&W… the video was about that line back in the 40’s. One real quick scene was a steam engine, could have been one of their class A’s or could have been one of their smaller locos, pulling a mixed freight while pushing several cars. I can’t remember if there was a caboose out in front of the engine or not. I need to borrow that film from him and watch it again as it was one of the best on the N&W I’ve seen.