Since joining the forum, I’ve taken an interest in finding out as much information as I can about steam and diesel locomotives, rolling stock, and other parts of the hobby that I find to be both interesting and necessary.
In saying that, I was recently reading something online about steam engines and I keep coming across it saying: Schenectady built 0-6-0s Class 91 or Baldwin built 2-8-0s Class 136s. Now please correct me if I’m wrong but Schenectady and Baldwin are who built the engines. And I know what the 0-6-0 or 2-8-0 means, from an earlier post I’ve made (thank you btw).
But what I don’t know or don’t understand is what the Class 91 or Class 136s means or stands for. Is this number important or is it thrown in there to confuse people like me?
The class number you speak of is the class of the locomotive as designated by the specific railroad its on. Best Example a PRR fan will know that a K4 is a 4-6-2 an M1 is a 4-8-2 ( I think not up on all my Pennsy classes so please forgive me if I am wrong)
Everyone is different though so a class on one line may be different on another.
These were individual railroad’s designation designed to differentiate subtle differences between locomotives of identical wheel arrangement; a railroad might never refer to a locomotive as a 2-8-8-2 but instead would assign it a class designation such as H-7 (C&O) or M-137 (WP) or SA-57 (UP) or MC-2/AC-! (SP) or Y6b (N&W), Sometimes - particularly when mergers or acquistions were involved - railroads might come up with seven or eight classes of 2-8-0s, as an example, all of which were somewhat different from all of the others of the same wheel arrangement.
M-4, Z1, Y6, K4 = class of engine and vary from railroad to railroad.
A railroad can have several 2-8-0’s and yet have different classes of them, IE different boiler sizes, weight on drivers, different tender…or some small modifiaction places them in a slightly different class.
Norfolk and Western had 4-8-0’s, Class M, Class M1, Class M2, Class M2a, M2b, M2c.
The M2c was double the weight on the drivers than the whole weight of a class M.
Being that different railroads used different classes for each locomotive does this mean that if I was modeling a Baldwin 2-8-0 Class 136 on my layout, can I use pictures from another railroad if I cannot find pictures of my certain train that I’m modeling.
Are the differences relatively simply or are they usually dramatic…
I’m getting just a mite confused as to just exactly what information you are seeking here on this post; Baldwin did not have a 2-8-0 Class 136. The XYZ Railroad may have had a 2-8-0 Class 136 built by Baldwin but that was their identification and Baldwin could care less if you called it a Class 136 or a Class TBRCLMNPW!
Sometimes differences are relatively simple and sometimes they are very dramatic; SP and ATSF both fielded substantial fleets of 2-8-0s but they differed in many ways and an afficionado can readily tell the difference simply by the shape and location of the domes atop the boiler. Pennsy boilers with their Belpaire fireboxes were uniquely identifiable and N&Ws Y Classes are also singularly identifiable and therefore hard to misidentify with anything else.
The locomotive builder say like a Baldwin 2-8-0, its possible they had a standard design for a givien locomotive to sell and it sold to several railroads, but also specific railroads also had specialized designs they needed and the builder obliged to work them in. There can be rather simple differences like cosmetic differences like headlight and bell placement which is an easy fix if they don’;t match for the model you are doing. But there are other details that can be very different, like cylinder sizes, kind of valve gear, size of drivers
do apic search on google for the model you looking at
I guess what my question was after the “what does this mean” question, is that if I can not find pictures of a certain locotive that is on the railroads roster. Is it possible to use a picture from another railroad?
As an example (I know this is not accurate) but lets just say that I was modeling a Santa Fe 2-8-0 class “whatever”, but I can not find a picture under any search engine. But I can find pictures of a UP 2-8-0 class “whatever”. Are these two locomotives so different that I can’t sub. one for the other. Or is there a chance that there might be a big difference?
The reason that I’m asking is that I’m finding it very hard to find pictures of the engines on the roster of the railroad that I’m thinking about modeling.
Two railroads might both have bought very similar engines from the same engine maker.
The railroads were unlikely to label the engines with the same label. For one railroad the engine type might have been “class 32”, for another “class H3” (labels not real - just examples). There is no guarantee whatsoever that two different railroads both would have called that same type of engine e.g “Class 165”.
So your odds of finding “class XX” from another RR while searching is at best slim.
There is also no guarantee that the engines would have been totally similar-looking, even though both railroads had bought engines with the same wheel arrangement from the same maker. Railroads often had standard steam engine models adapted to fit their special perceived needs.
Maybe the smartest thing would be to tell people here what specific railroad you are modelling and what specific pictures you are looking for. Better odds that someone will be able to help you with a specific query than a general one.
No, you cannot. Those locomotives are distinctly different… Keep searching. You are sure to find a picture of the locomotive you want, or at least its sister.
The railroad that I’m researching is the Colorado Midland RR. The pictures that I’m looking for are any of the locomotives in their roster. Hope this helps
It really depends on what your goal is. If you want to model a specific locomotive or class, then yes, find the photos of that individual piece on which to base your efforts. If you just want to make a few modifications to get “close enough” then you just need to look out for particular details like what type of pilot, cab or tender would be appropriate, and let the rest of it be close.
I’m not a steam modeler by any stretch, but I wanted to get the Bachmann consolidation they did for the Western Maryland. The WM had a bazillion 2-8-0’s in several classes (H-7, H-8, H-9 among others) Bachmann’s model represents a Baldwin design, and carries the road number of an H-7, which were actually Alcos. But the proportions are reasonably close, so I go with it.
I removed the factory pilot, and modified the walkboards along the smoke box to more closely resemble WM practice. It’s still foobie, but it’s close enough for my purposes.
Railroads would have this “family” look, such as headlight placement, appliance placement, bell placement, you could look at another engine of the same line and work out the “look” but it wouldnt be exact.
I’ll scan around for the Colorado Midland and get back here.
From the 1880s onward, Baldwin did have catalogs of “standard” engines they produced. They had a catalog numbering convention that gave key parameters for each design. That said, Baldwin would customize a catalog design at the drop of a hat to gain a customer. Baldwin was known for semi-custom locomotives for smaller railroads. And if the order were big enough - typically a dozen or more - Baldwin would do a custom design if that’s what the customer wanted.
Colorado Midland did have at least some Baldwin engines. The Fratcheschi (sp?) 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 imported by Model Power in the 1990s (and still available direct from Fratcheschi) are supposed to be very close models of CM Baldwin engines. Drive train is atrocious, at least in the Model Power versions, but the superstructure is very nice.
Looking at some models the best bet for the smaller 2-8-0 would be the MDC-Roundhouse 2-8-0 old timer. The larger 2-8-0 maybe MDC’s larger 2-8-0 would work but the cylinders are not the box type, the boiler maybe fitted on the old timer?
Thanks dinwitty, I will check out the Trains story, or at least try too. It might be alittle to late for this but I’m assuming that the MDC’s are HO, and I’m modeling in N scale. I haven’t checked around yet on some of the prices or available locos. I have a feeling that they are going to be hard to find or very pricey. I will check them out tho. Who knows it might just be what I need. Thanks again for the help…
