Just my opinion, but whether MTH is hurting or not, I’m thinking that with the investment made that we will see that K4. Based on the publicity photos, HO modelers on the MTH threads pointed out that it did not look as realistic as BLI’s K4. It will likely sell, though perhaps not in huge numbers.
I’m not sure there ever was any investment. Most of us think he just showed the O gauge version.
I think it’s a real shame (hee-hee-hee) about Mike (yeah right!) You reap what you sow.
Well,
On the other two threads I made some very strong comments about Mike. However, instead of rejoicing it would be good to hope that Mike rethinks his business tactics and strategy.
The battles between Lionel, MTH, and Williams seemed to be the norm for years. Perhaps when he experienced the HUGE backlash from HO modelers when he tried the same tactics with the litigation threats, it may have been a “wake-up call” for him.
Roger that!
As I said before, I have a donkey the MTH can kiss.
I too am wondering what the outcome of MTH’s entry into HO scale will be!?! While I don’t share the hatred for Mike Wolf that many on this and other forums do, I would be upset if he didn’t follow through and deliver an HO scale product. I for one welcome any new manufacturers to the hobby. This can only bring good things to the consumers as it drives better quality and new technologies.
On a side note, although I have used the DCS system on my small overhead 3-rail layout for years, and with a great deal of satisfaction I might add (I’m still waiting for a DCC system to be released that is as powerful and easy to use as the DCS system is), I too have heard rumors that 2-rail operation under DCS control is not that great. I’m not sure of all the drawbacks, but my guess is for it to be a competitor in the control system market that is so heavily dominated by DCC systems, any and all bugs that would limit operations on 2-rail layouts would have to be eliminated before release… [;)]
I don’t know why you scale boys have such a problem with Mike Wolf. Thanks to Mike we’ve got it made in O gauge. You all need to cut him some slack and wait to see what he comes up with for HO. We are talking toys here so just cool it. It’s gonna be a long hot summer.
Red
Why do we have a problem? He thinks he invented every aspect of modeling and sues on the drop of a hat claiming to have invented it. In the meantime none of the producers are allowed to sell anything we want like advanced sound decoders and other features. He has sued at least two manufacturers in HO already. Next he will tell us he is Irv Athearn or Gordon Varney reincarnated and claim he owns those companies.
Not wanting to start a rift here, but which two HO scale manufacturers are you referring to? The only recent lawsuits I’m aware of concerning MTH is the one with Lionel, which has been decided in MTH’s favor I might add, and the one with QSI. The QSI lawsuit is a countersuit, i.e. MTH didn’t throw the first stone, and concerns the patent infringements on the QSI Proto series sound system. This sound system is used exclusively in large scale equipment on 3-rail track. So what lawsuits with HO scale manufacturers are you thinking of?
Although some of his buissiness practices seem reprehensible to me, he does make some great 3 rail products. I have no problem with MTH introducing a DCC equipped loco to HO modelers. But im all against DCS. All that can possibly come of that is confusion over what trains you can run where and on whos track. Heck just DCC and DC is one too many for me. Are we going to have tripple mode decoders now!?! Like I said, I have no problem with MTH entering HO. But no matter what they do Im almost sure they will fail miserably in an HO market. I know I wouldnt buy one and I only see one post on this thread that sounds like a person who might buy an MTH HO engine. Mike, do what you want, but if you really are a good buisiness man you wont waste your money on us HO guys.
MTH will be reproducing Athearn blue box kits except they will come in a purple box…
Funny, isn’t it. 2 days after asking this question, out of mild curiosity, along comes a hush hush, secret announcent that MTH is going to revolutionize the HO scale market. Anyone think we are being monitored?
Simon, I think I have a pretty good idea who Rivet Counter is. Without mentioning an actual name, he is MTH’s number one cheerleader. If it is who I think it is, he posts under his real name over on the CTT forum, making official announcements for MTH, and is very close to Mike Wolf himself. I still take everything from that source with a grain of salt, and sometimes two, because it is not unbiased.
I believe that after such a long silence on this subject, it was reasoable to bring it up again. I guess no dog can sleep forever. Hopefully there won’t be too much barking.[swg]
One question: is DCS at all compatible with DCC? I’ve not read much about it. I know some one-make digital systems are at least halfway DCC compatible (LGB’s MTS for example) but I’m not sure if this is the case with DCS.
DCS itself is not compatible. However a DCS equipped locomotive decoder may also support DCC. At least according to the MTH ads a few months ago. Some of the features available in DCS would not be opperational on the DCC layout.
That’s crazy - what are they thinking? You won’t sell a completely new control system like that, especially not with the anger that MTH’s recent activities has generated. Many pre-DCC systems failed as they were only supported by one manufacturer, and trying to introduce a new set of standards like this will not work. I foresee a lot of work for DCC decoder installers fitting replacement chips to DCS locos, if anyone buys them that is!
Matt, I think you hit the nail right on the head. The problem is DCS was invented specificly for the 3 rail O market, at a cost of 4 million dollars. I suspect that the return on that investment is somewhat lacking, and MTH is looking to expand it’s use.
I could see where a locomotive produced by MTH that could run on DCC or DCS would have a potential market as all the DCC installed layouts could run the locomotive. What I can not see is how DCS would, or could ever get a foothold in the HO/N market (not withstanding the negative image of MTH). Why would anyone buy a control system that is limited to running locomotives from one manufacturer when DCC allows you to run locos from any manufacturer with a DCC decoder from any number of manufacturers? In view of the current climate, it is hard to see any of the HO scale loco makers offering DCS compatible loco’s.
Simon, in addition to all of MTH’s image problems in the HO community, they have another real and bigger problem. They don’t have many dealers who are going to be carrying and demonstrating these HO products. Many of the dealers in their network are exclusive O gauge stores. Here in the Twin Cities, metro area population over 2 million, there is only one dealer that sells any quantity of MTH products, and he is an O gauge exclusive store. Nobody is going to carry it. No demos, no sales. The closest store to me will probably be Milwaukee or Chicago (250 and 350 miles away), followed by Denver (1000 miles away).
As for other manufacturers offering DCS equipt locomotives, if history is any indication, it will never happen. It has taken more than 5 years for MTH to release retrofit kits for O gauge trains to upgrade to DCS. None of the O gauge manufacturers have given the slightest indication that they want to license DCS technology, probably because of it’s proprietary nature. All have chosen to offer their models with Lionel’s TMCC technology, except Williams, who has never shown any interest in command technology.
I expect this venture to be stillborn, or at least very short lived, especially if Lionel is successful in keeping the judgement money away from Mike’s warchest.
Elliot,
I don’t quite think that you’re right. Tony Lash, as far as I know, always posts under his real name, although he has been known to make plenty of hit-and-run type troll posts of the same nature.
Rivet Counter is most likely is another alias of Hans Zimmer, who posts to this and other Trains.com forums under the names Joe Polska, Frankie Z, Frankie CSX, Ted E. Bear, and about a dozen other names. Look up some of those names and see if you can find any sort of pattern. You’ll most likely see what I’m talking about.
Who really cares if we are monitored?? Maybe MTH is gong to sue everyone on this thread and revolutionize the HO market by forcing us to buy O three rail.
Just kidding!!