Sure, I understand the progression from Steam to Diesel,
but perhaps someone more knowledgeable has an answer
for me. What caused the demise of all of the
beautiful F and Alco units ? (among others)
Save for the modern FP Amtrak locomotives, all of the rest
are so similar looking.
Also, am I incorrect in my belief that there are more steamers
preserved than streamliners?
Of course, to me they both have an important place in railroading.
Simple answer is the same thing that caused the demise of Steam…Cost. But this time, not the cost to run them, but the cost to make them. In cost saving measures, they decided to cut the amount of metal to shroud the loco to bare minimums. this resulted int he ever popular modern style of boxie Engines (Powered boxcars), where the metal shrouds just barely cover the internals and a cab was an afterthought (or so it seems, just look where they stuck the bathrooms).
Of course the streamliner concept is alive and well, The Acela is clearly a streamline train, and so is the rebuilt Rohr Turboliner. Even the Colorado Railcar can be called streamlined. But for the classic, enjoy The Canadian, exept for the locomotives.
Driver8, as mentioned there are still quite a number of the old streamlined locomotives still in existence. So basically they won’t be extinct. While most may be in museums, some are in running condition.
Some of you might be familiar with these:
[1] There are two Pennsy E-units that were beautifully restored and running.
[2] There are a pair of E-units in New York Central livery along with an E8 painted in Red and Silver! They were in a Tennessee museum just a few years ago.
[3] The rebuilt UP E units that have hauled specials.
[4] The Southern Railway FP7s that are still running, (I believe it’s a pair)
[5] Somewhere in New Jersey there’s an E unit painted in the “Erie” railroad scheme.
[6] There is a tourist line in Branson, Missouri. One of the locomotives is an F-unit, and of course, there are still F units in running if not rough condition.
Boeing 737, 707 and Douglas DC-8 DC-9 jet airplanes revolutionized travel. Three day trips were now five hours. And the Interstate highway system was the final dagger in the heart of the streamliners. After the mid 1960’s long distance trains operated almost empty. Safe, fast, convenient and courteous air service blew rail travel away.
…Streamliners in railroads were not alone in the effort of securing customers back when “modern” looking conveyances were being concieved…Airplanes and especially automobiles were vehicles that the effort was applied to as well…Especially autos…The auto industry design concept came alive in that era and went full force forward to jump ahead of the competition. As many of us know the 30’s were serious economic times and design was called upon as an effort to stimulate sales. Simply one of the effects from the great depression.
You’re right tabiery, except on just one point. Many of the long distance trains that were still running in the 1960s were running full! Especially the New York to Florida Trains of the ACL, SCL (SCL in 1967).
Problem was that even with every seat occupied the railroads were losing huge amounts of money on them as passenger trains were and still are very labor intensive. Passenger train ticket revenues didn’t make up for crew costs, passenger car cleaning and repair maintenance, insurance, and food service, [;)]
thanks for all of the insightful information.
i guess like everything else, the “bottom line”
is the “bottom line”…
i really appreciate a resource like this forum.
Back in 1969, when Western Pacific and Rio Grande filed for discontinuance of their share of the California Zephyr, it was established that the train had an operating ratio of 125% even when it was sold out. The discontinuance petition wasn’t filed because the train was empty but because the railroads couldn’t afford to keep operating it.
Yep! Very sad situation. I saw a clip on t.v about the Zephyr. People were very, very upset when the petition was filed. The Zephyr had a loyal clientele, but as stated even on occasions when nearly every was seat filled, the losses were very high.
It’s a trajedy that Amtrak wasn’t created in the late 1950s when most of the railroads were complaining about the high losses. With the mindset the country had back then, Amtrak would probably have been very successful. Make a profit? NO! But with many people still traveling by train then (including congressmen and govt. officials) , the support would very likely have been strong.
…And maybe, just maybe a deal might have been worked out to retain the sensible and popular routes {if Amtrak was in existence then, or just let the RR’s operate them}, with just enough subsidy provided to the operating railroads to keep their operation out of the red…but, that subject was kicked around on here a couple of weeks ago…I think it does sound sensible though. Surely the details could have been put together.
Steamerfan , you must have read my mind on diesels, I refer to them as tipped-over Metal gym lockers with motors. Streamliners??? They all ended up here in Canada and we are still using them on our so-called passenger service.
The term Streamliner was a brand name used by the UP starting in 1933 for its first light weight trains such the City of Salina, City of Portland, etc. When these trains got dome cars in the 1950s the were rebranded and became Domeliners.
Another problem was by the time of the Amtrak takeover very little equipment was less than twenty to thirty years old and much had seen deferred maintenance which meant heavy expenditures to put it back in reasonable order. On top of that Budd was ready to exit the passengercar business and AC&F had already left. This left Pullman who was lacking interest in passenger equipment as well. Sure the Amfleet cars came from Budd and the first order of Superliners came from Pullman but any future cars are going to be a major expense. The railroads themselves were not interested in investing in new equipment and it is for that reason only that Santa Fe and several others joined Amtrak. They were not prepared to invest the necessary funds into new equipment.