What happens when a knuckle breaks on a hill?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

OK, I know if a knuckle breaks on a hill the airline would go with it and the air would be bled from the brakes, and the train would go into emergency.

I assume this would be enough braking power to stop the train from rolling down the hill uncontrolably.

What I am wondering, though, is how they get the train off the hill without a knuckle to couple the engine to? Do they bring in engines from elsewhere and couple to the rear of the train and push it over the hill? It would seem to me that if this were to happen on a long train on a big hill, you would have problems.

Gabe

2

They carry spare knuckles. The conductor has to get the knuckle to the broken one. They carry it or have the engineer pull the train forward and then ride the last car back to the rest of the train. Then they remove whats left of the old one and replace it with the new one.
Then if they are on a hill they will have to turn up enough retainers to hold the train while the air charges back up.

3

Emergency Air Service Application (Bigholes/air dumped/brakes apply),

Gets on radio and announces train has gone into emergency and where,

Lots of crew cursing and swearing,

Conductor gets hot, dirty & sweaty,

Tie down brakes on the loose end off the train (The prescribed # of cars plus a few more)…gets air back into the part of the train with the locomotive so it can move,

Change the knuckle, hook-up and leave…

4

Here is a excellent site that explains how brakes work:

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/brakes.htm

Check out the site. There are lots of great photo essays and explainations of many things.

5

I had no idea that they could change a knuckle on the road. Wow. I seem to remember reading that when N&W had knuckle problems they would litterally bulldoze the car right off the track so as not to tie up the line.

Was the ability to replace a knuckle on the road a recent invention?

Gabe

6

No

If you look at older pictures of locomotives you can sometimes see the knuckles in holders on the outside underneath the cab below the frame.

7

MC forgot to mention the busted up fingers, strained backs, and sundry other goodies that go with the job.

8

OK I want to make sure I understand correctly. Let us say you have a 200 car train & the knukle breaks between car 90 & 91 while go uphill. That means car 91 & all behind it are now free to roll backwards but once the airline severs between cars 90 & 91 the brakes on car 91 & all behind it brakes will lock is that correct? I do understand about the crew changing a coupler. I sure that has to be right up there as being the job I like doing the most! Do I have it correct? [:)][:p]

[quote]
Originally posted by chad thomas

No

9

Also found at either end of the train were/are caboose chains, brake hoses, grommets, ball peen hammers, wrenches, prybars, brake shoes, tempsticks, paintstik, journal oil , train order hoops & string , lantern batteries and rags/packing and the like.

In a month of walking track, especially yards…I’d find plenty of this stuff lying around. used to love driving up to the roundhouse mechanical foreman every so often and place a large pile peace offering in the center of his desk , and then flee.[:D][:D][B)]

10

[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

OK I want to make sure I understand correctly. Let us say you have a 200 car train & the knukle breaks between car 90 & 91 while go uphill. That means car 91 & all behind it are now free to roll backwards but once the airline severs between cars 90 & 91 the brakes on car 91 & all behind it brakes will lock is that correct? I do understand about the crew changing a coupler. I sure that has to be right up there as being the job I like doing the most! Do I have it correct? [:)][:p]

close, the whole train goes into emergency. Lock is probably not a good term, but there is sufficient brake force to stop the train from rolling down the hill.

11

Thank U & sorry for my poor choice of words. Thanks for the clarification also. [:p][:)]

[quote]
Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

12

Sounds like they carry a small repair shop with them. The bottom part is real cute. Do U check your locker ever day before opening it? [:o)][:p]

[quote]
Originally posted by mudchicken

13

No one mentioned the dispatcher.

Despite the physical trials and tribulations of such a problem, the journey is not complete until the Dispatcher and any impacted person has a say in the matter.

Poor train crew.

Does the time count against the hog law?

14

Really a bad thing to happen if it was on a single line because other trains would be held up (=$ lost).

I was in the tank corps for a few years, and changing tracks on tanks was about the worst thing you had to do. Changing couplers, I fear, is far worse.

15

[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Sounds like they carry a small repair shop with them. The bottom part is real cute. Do U check your locker ever day before opening it? [:o)][:p]

Don’t need one - It’s all behind the front seat in the cab of the pickup truck.[:D][}:)][}:)]

16

Knuckle breaks between car 99&100 in a 200 car train.
First, conductor gets on the horn to the dispatcher, and any other train he knows is in the area to advise them of what has happened.

He/she then gets to walk back to the break…when he gets there, first thing he does is close the angle***on the car forward of the break, so the engineer can recover the air on the head cut.

He then ties handbrakes on the part that broke away…he does not turn up retainers, they only work when the train line is charged…hand brakes, as many as he thinks(and that road’s rules) requires, then a few more just to be safe.

After he is sure the rear is secure, and will not run away if there is a leaker that allows the brake cylinder to equalize with the resevoir, he has the engineer throw off the correct knuckle, (most locomotives have at least 2 different styles, a E and an F in hangers) and then he grabs on the last car, has the engineer drag him up to the knuckle, stops, throws it on the last cars walkway, gets shoved back down to the break, repairs the busted knuckle, couples up the cars, has the engineer stretch the joint to make sure the couple made, (nothing like doing all of this, forgetting to check the joint, walking to the head end, only to have it plug again when you start moving…yes I did, and no, never again) cuts in the air, waits till the engineer has the air back on the rest of the train, knocks off the hand brakes, and if he is lucky and the dispatcher isnt too POed at them, gets permission for the engineer to back up enough to pick him up, otherwise, he walks back to the head end, call the dispatcher, and they get underway.
Yes, all of this work counts against the total time on duty.

And most locomotives still have 2 knuckles, at least one knuckle pin, spare air hose and hanger, wrench, flagmans kit(fusees, torpedos, red flag) on board.

Ed

17

What is the avg life of a knuckle? How often do the break on the road?

18

I might be one of the lucky few…in 8 years, I have only had one knuckle go on a road job…a 125 car loaded coke train…and it was 80 cars deep.
Have busted a few in my normal daily job, flat yard switching…and one of those was on a brand new UTLX tank car…most of the time, I get busted kunckle pins…

More often that not, the break is due to a internal defect in the knuckle, not the age of the knuckle…
Unlike brake rigging and safety appliances, there is no mandatory time limit on how long a knuckle is used, and they get looked at by car knockers all the time, so most obvious defect, cracks and pieces missing, show up and get repaired before the cars are released.

Ed

19

Ed - Thanks fro the info.

20

No more spares than “Wheeeeee”! Thats the end…