Here is a list of things im currently pondering on…
What if some one put a wire across the tracks to trick the ASB signalling system?
What if some one put a wire across the tracks to make RR crossing gates go down?
What if some one put a spike on the tracks, would it derail the train?
What if some one cut a brake hoses a train was slowly moving down a hill (personaly i have no clue how you would do that)…
These are things that worrie me and make me think, what bout’ u?
Stuff NOT to ponder on too much. Much of it has already been thought about…
Wire across the tracks might work with some older ABS (for Automatic Block Signal) plants… but in all probability the only ‘tricking’ this would do is to get the signal to ‘fail safe’ – e.g. go red. Great for a denial-of-service attack, but not if you want to create disaster. (Any actual problems doing this, I’m not telling. Nobody else chime in, either!)
Wire to make crossings go down: maybe. But someone is likely to see you doing it, especially if you try it more than once or twice – the track circuits on most crossings are fairly short. Again, going down is ‘failing safe’ – the problem would occur if someone tampered with the circuit to keep the gates FROM going down.
Very unlikely you could get a spike to derail a train. (Again, I’m not telling about any exceptions)
A cut brake hose… does exactly what a parted brake hose does: big-hole the Westinghouse. (The biggest hole you can use!) Train stops. Again, do this more than a couple of times and you’re likely to draw the ‘wrong’ kind of attention to yourself.
None of this is particularly novel, or particularly dangerous. Jamming PTC is a bit more concerning to me… not that any amateur terrorists out there are likely to have the equipment, let alone the knowledge, to do that comprehensibly. Plastique or RPGs is scary… but it doesn’t worry me because there’s nothing I can do. personally, either pro or con to keep the problem away.
If I were you I’d “ponder” on things that are positive, or at least more advanced than the sort of things slacker teens would cobble up.
If someones does have concerns about RR security, who is the best to contact? DHS (TSA), FRA, AAR, rail companies, or representative/senator?
Thank you for the info, i saw some kids try to put a wire from rail to rail and the crossing gate went down and the back up. It was a shock to me tht someone would try that! I was just worried about things like this happening around where i live. there are alot of spikes on the ground near the tracks i live near. and there are many teens walking down the tracks always screwing with stuff.
I am glad you came back and gave us more info. It worried me that someone would ask such negative questions. Then your reply helped clear the muddy water. If your explanation would have been included in your original post it would have been very helpful. I sort of jumped to the wrong conclusion at first and am very glad you straightened me out. [;)]
I grew up in the country and “ran” the tracks almost daily. Semaphores were in use (ok, it wasn’t THAT long ago) and I knew how to read them. Plus at night they were lighted and I knew about when the trains should run. Today things are different and I hope that people don’t follow in my footsteps.
If there is vandalism going on then report it. If they are using the tracks as a footpath sooner or later the railroad police will visit them. It just depends on how much and how often they run the tracks, and if a train crew reports them.
(I would call the wire across the tracks vandalism.)
i reported them, but no RR police ever came. I can understand because maybe they have bigger problems. This wouldn’t be the first time i reported them, once they walked up to the tracks and sprayed paint on the passing cars. That time the RR police came, but never since. I hope they get caught.
ericsp, first point of contact (imho) should ALWAYS be the railroad in question. They command the right ‘mix’ of police and technical people… and they have, or ought to have, all the right contacts for more effective follow-up
911 in my area (and in west suburban Atlanta) has direct numbers to reach the appropriate railroads, if you ask. This is a convenient option if you see something like a smoking traction motor while driving, and you want to pick up your cell phone and tell someone quick. (Norfolk Southern was glad I did!)
I wouldn’t think the Homeland Security boys, or AAR, would be very effective places to make suggestions. Unless you’re VERY well connected. FRA would be interested, but again learning to network the channels isn’t a trivial thing… little that happens inside the Beltway is. Rep or Sen will work quite nicely IF you are literate or coherent enough to get them to take an interest, but they’re much more capable of bringing pressure on agency people – or getting solutions providers to straighten up and fly right – than shepherding “effective” legislation that doesn’t need sensationalism to get passed in timely fashion.
That’s my opinion, and you’re welcome to it.
For railroad emergencies:
BNSF–(800) 832-5452 / (800) 795-2673, OPTION 1 for Resource Operations center / (800) 795-2673, OPTION 0 for Telephone Operator/Directory Assistance
UP–(888) 877-7267 / (888) UPRRCOP (888-877-7267) for suspicious activities / (800) 848-8715 for grade crossing emergencies
CSX–(800) 232-0144 / (877)-ShipCSX (877-744-7279) OPTION 1
NS–(800) 453-2530 for grade crossings and police
CN–(800) 465-9239
CP–(800) 551-2553
The first telehone number is the one most prominently listed on their website.
There is also usually a number to call on the side of the crossing circuit housing.
Of course, if you don’t know what railroad you’re by, 911 works too, I would guess.
Does anybody know if it would be a good idea to put a wire across the tracks to give a red signal to the trains when an automobile stalls on a crossing (or jumper cables, as this is with a car), or would that just make the situation worse?
See you around the forums,
Daniel Parks
Yes 911 works very well if there is a problem.the local dispatcher has a # for directly to the rr. works good for little vandals too.
stay safe
Joe
When I railfan with a friend of mine, he brings his cell phone with him. On his phone he has CN Police on speed-dial which he has had to use a few times.
You know, this makes me wonder whether there should be ‘emergency wires’ that could be used with PTC systems – embedded codes or transponders in the wire that respond to parts of the train-control system. Each crewperson on a track gang, for example, would keep one and use it across the track circuit. AAA members would have individual IDs which the railroad could use to identify the vehicle ‘in trouble’. Police and fire departments might use wires to indicate when crossings are blocked or impeded… or when they need access or have hoses across the tracks, etc. Etc.
It never occurred to me to have something simple like this available to appropriate parties.
Anything to complete the circiut will signal crossing gates to go down, or make a block “occupied.”
Simply putting a big steel bar across the tracks will make the crossing gates activate, as well as jumper cables…
Of course I have never tried this…
It would be a good idea to have “safety cables”, but vandles will see people using it and attempt to cause problems for the railroad (either causing the signals to say the blocks a occupided, or it will not work and the metal bar would possibly derail the train.)
Word of warning…
If you try to cut the brake hose on a moving train, the least you will get for your trouble is a good, heavy duty smack by the hose,(as it blows apart and throws the train into emergency) in places you really, really dont want to get smacked.
Experience railroaderd keep turned away from the hose when cutting cars off…
90 psi can throw a lot of debris up, and the hose moves quicker than a rattlesnake…
Not to mention you most likely will lose one, maybe both of your feet or legs.
If your lucky, you live…odds are not in favor of that.
If your wondering how to cause trouble, you named the most common attempts, but count on just about anything you can think of having been tried before.
Ed
A very smart man I once knew put it this way “Don’t mess around with something that is bigger than you are or with something you don’t know anything about. If you think you can mess around with it, think twice.”
ouch, 90 psi could kill you (60 psi can shoot a bowling ball 100 yards) but i figured it would be around 150 psi for most trains (but i dont work for a RR so i have no clue what i am talking about).
If you are near the crossing, look for a license plate size plate affixed to the crossbucks or other railroad owned device at the crossing (at least for CSX)…that plate contains the FRA crossing identification number…database access to that number permits railroad security authorities to zero in on EXACTLY where the problem is.
The biggest problem railroads and local authorities have is communicating the EXACT location of where a problem is. Local authorities (and their 911 dispatchers) speak in ‘hundred block’, (ie. 2100 block of Street X). Railroads speak in milepost (ie. mile 21.9 on XYZ subdivision). The two languages are mutually exclusive and much time is lost in both sides attempting to agree on EXACTLY where the problem is.