I actually got a program titled “Runnin the Highline” BNSF’s Gateway Sub from PENTREX. While departing NORTH or EAST the crew change point at Quarry road north of Keddie on BNSF track the Engineer said that they had a steady Lunar signal? But as I understand, ITS DARK TERRITORY. So how did he know that he had a steady Lunar signal? Beats me?
Signals exist in dark territory. For instance, the automatic interlocking at Stronghold has four (4) signals - two in each direction - one distant and one home.
At Keddie, CTC exists up the Inside Gateway (this is what the whole route from Keddie to Wishram is called) for a short distance, and that Lunar signal most probably was the “call on” to indicate the train had permission to enter dark territory. A green, for instance, could not be used because there would not be another signal byond this particular signal. The Special Instructions may also authorize a “flashing Lunar” and then describe what actions the crew is required to accomplish.
I remember lunar signals from dispatch class. But I have never heard the term “herder” except in relation to sheep or cow-punching. Was this an official RR term or the slang of railfans? And didn’t the conductor line the train into the yard after receiving authority to enter? Can you help me understand this, please?
Tina
A herder is a switchman whose assigned duties are to line switches - usually at yard entrances - from the main line into the yard tracks for arriving or departing trains and that authority extends for one mile byond the farthest gate (switch). The signals remain in the dispatchers or interlocking operators control.
CTC used to go up to Clear Creek Jct. (and mabee a little beyond) some 35-40 miles north of Keddie but it was taken out of service around the time of the UP merger. If there is any CTC north of Keddie the distance would probably be better measured in feet then miles.
BTW- The northern Cal railfans I Know consider the line between Chemault and Wishram to be the Oregon Trunk and the section between K Falls and Keddie to be the Inside Gateway even though the OT is part of the Inside Gateway route.
The distant and home signals on the BN tracks in Stronghold were semaphores till a few years ago. These are what they have there now.
Chad ------
Oregon Trunk === Wishram to Bend. Joint operation with the UP and BNSF. All BNSF ownership except for a streach of track between South Jct and Metolius which is owned by the UP.
Great Northern == Bend to Chemult; Klamath Falls to Bieber. BNSF has trackage rights over SP (UP) between Chemult and Klamath Falls.
Western Pacific == Bieber to Keddie. Went to UP in UP-WP merger. Now part of the BNSF due to SP/UP merger.
Because of the jct between to railroads, there will need to be an joint interlocking of some sort at Keddie, and this will require signals, even if it is only a distant and a home signal on the Inside Gateway. The dispatchers are going to need some method of remotely authorizing movement from Keddie north, and the simplest method is for the BNSF dispatcher to control the (departure) Home Signal at Keddie that authorizes movement north.
Since there is no Northbound (railroad East) signal byond the Home signal, I know of only four possible signal aspects that could be displayed - solid yellow which would apply to a sign placed opposite the Distant Signal; flashing red; Lunar; and red over Lunar or Lunar over red (this last combination is usually used to indicate a facing point switch position so a train need not stop if the switch is porperly aligned).
It is also possible for the Home Signal for Eastward movement where the West Leg of the Keddie Y meets the Feather River Route Main to display a diverging route signal that would include Lunar and/or Flashing Lunar to authorize movement up the Inside Gateway and not have a “departure Home” signal where the two legs join to make the tail track (in this case, the Inside Gateway Mainline).
This signal would also need to act as a switch indicator for the tail track switch. If someone has a copy of the UP’s Special Instructions that apply at Keddie, this would detail all of what we have been ta
Just west of Valparaiso, In. the CN crosses the NS and the CFE. The CN controls the interlocking.
The NS line curves to the right beginning about 1/3 mile west of the CN crossing, making the signal difficult to see. At the beginnign of the curve is a road crossing. There is a signal just before the line begins to curve. This only has one lamp and is either red or lunar. This signal allows the on coming train to either stop short of the curve and the road crossing, or continue on and cross the CN.
Since the CN controls the siding if is highly probable that they will hold the NS (or CFE) trains if there is a CN train within 10 miles.
My guess is the lunar allows the crew to either stop short or continue at speed. I often hear conversations between dispatcher and crew in which this signal is referred to as the “lunar signal”.
ed
I have seen a Lunar once on Metrolink territory…a train was givin one into a siding that was occupied about a 5000 feet ahead…
Ed … This is a “call-on” signal. Since the crossing is within 1/3 mile of the interlocking, I am sure that this signal is there to prevent a train from blocking the crossing. The red would mean stop right there and do no block the crossing. The Lunar would be the “call-on” indication to advance the train to the Jct signal.
Karl
This is a risky maneuver. As a dispatcher and also as a conductor, I have done this, but this has the same risk as crawling under a moving train. However, sometimes there is simply no other method to get trains moving - and there are lots of reasons why they are not moving.
Normally, when a train - even one car long - is in a siding (control block), NOBODY else is permitted to enter that block. But like I said, sometimes you do have to enter and the Lunar signal accomplished that — it is a “call-on” signal with special restrictions.
Never heard it called a “call-on” signal but used in former N&W locations where its display is for other uses as prescribed, generally, where a trackside signal cannot be seen, so it serves as a indication that the route has been favorably lined up for the train. It does not, however, provide signal protection or give any indication of the condition or possible occupation of the route.
“Call-on” certainly fits the bill of the way it is used.
Does anyone know which RR used the lunar aspect first?
The only place I 've seen a lunar aspect is on the ex-B&O main through Fostoria, OH.
Don’t know if the B&O was the first to use Lunar in its signal system. In the B&O’s CPL’s - when equipped the Lunar indications were displayed at the 10 & 4 positions on the ‘clock dial’ of the signal; both high signal and dwarf - as a part of Rule 290 in my 1953 B&O Rule Book. It could also be displayed as none, one or two reds over top of lunar with a angular blade in semaphore signals.
Rule 290 - Block Occupied. Proceed, prepared to stop short of train ahead. In automatic block territory, proceed at Restricted Speed until entire train passes next signal.
Name of the Signal - Restricting.
With a large part of the B&O being double track with Current of Traffic signaling in one direction on each track. At interlocking, a Restricting signal would be used when routing a train (holding the appropriate Train Order) to operate AGAINST the Current of Traffic on a track.
I’ve heard that lunars an electric equivalent, sucessor if you will, of a banjo (Hall Disc) signal?
Forgive me if someone has answered this - the thread is longer than I thought…
The “markers” on the B&O CPLs are “white.” At least, they are as white as incandescent lamps can get. Actually, two of them are yellow. Look up “B&O CPL” for the full story.
CSX signal rules do allow for a lunar - it conveys restricting.
The Milwaukee Road used many lunar and red pot signals in their South Minneaplolis area trackwork. Red meant stop and lunar meant proceed.
When viewed at the same time - Lunar has a bluish caste to it appearance as opposed to the white of the top or bottom ‘marker’ lights.
I believe that was the standard for many trolley systems, although they may have used white vs lunar.
I was told once that that was to be able to tell the difference between a lunar and a signal with a broken lens.
About 15 years ago, I came across a color light signal that had the red lens broken out. Although when I first saw it, about 1/4 mile away coming around a curve I didn’t know it. The light at first, looking directly at the bulb was yellowish. A kind of washed out yellow. Once we were a few cars from it, I looked back at it and the color had changed to a more white, almost lunar, color. I knew that signal couldn’t give a lunar aspect and then I realized it was the bottom light on the head and I could see a chard of red.
I had been only doing about 5 mph when the signal first came into view. I knew I was following a train. I had let my speed raise a bit when I saw the signal, but still wasn’t going over 10. I used full service when I realized the red lens had been broken out. We stopped with the engine about one length beyond the signal. I immediately reported what happened.
The washed out yellow color was from looking directly at the bulb. The white, lunar color was looking at the light reflecting off the silver signal housing.
Jeff