I am looking with interest at the American railroading world.I found this world very ecxiting and greatly ifashinating and i would like to model my rapresentation of it as closed as possible or using a more specific word prototopically But i need to serch in your guidance what this means as there are parameters that modelers use to reach a good level of historical consistency and accuracy in what they model.In other words parameters that modeler use to be representing some era or time period or a location being happy that is realistic or at least. close enough.
For example running freight cars built in 1944 in 1962 but with lettering implaying that certain tests[weight,brakes etc.] have been done in 1970 is it an acceptable practice in terms of being prototopical ?
I am aware that of course this is my railway and i am the only one that need to be please and enjoi it and make the rules i like or use modeler licence etc.
I would really like to know how members see theyr approach to a reasonably close modeling of the real prototype they model to have an idea on how to orient myself according to the practices they see fit to achieve a good result to theyr projects
Thanks very much indeed for your reply opinions and other forms of advices or infact any comment
It is indeed a sliding scale of how close you wish to come. Probably the best place to start is by educating yourself and the good old fashion way is to get books. If you are interested in a region or Railroad in the US and a time period, then you could narrow your focus and people could recommend some good books with photo’s, illustrations and information. For me, since I haven’t had a layout to run for a good few years, I’ve used that time to buy books and do research to help me better build an appropriate roster of models for my interest.
Prototypical modeling generally means you are trying to model something that actually existed at some time. Since a layout is ideally a scene rather than a collection of stuff, you want things that work together to make a realistic scene.
Generally, that means you don’t put a bunch of things together just because “I like this and this and this.” Or- “because that’s how it is sold.”
I mention “how it is sold” because I notice you have asked a number of questions about commercial models. I have a certain amount of skepticism about the authenticity of commercial models. A company will mak a model of a particular car or locomotive and then paint in a prototype scheme that is popular and sells well, regardless of whether that particular railroad ran that particular car. My un-favorite example is the Pennsylvania Railroad GG-1 electric locomotive in Santa Fe warbonnet colors!
Making everything absolutely perfectly exact would take an awful lot of rebuilding, reworking, scratchbuilding, and a lot of researching. And it may well be impossible to know everything about what was where when.
Let’s go back to the example in your question, a 1944 car in 1962 with 1970 lube andn inspection marks. It is YOU who determine the year you want to model (sometimes by the prototypes you want to use)…I can’t do 1962 but I do have figures for Santa Fe cars in 1961.
14 BX-3 class (panel side double sheathed wood) boxcars built in 1923.
264 BX-6 class (panel side double sheathed wood) built in 1925.
about 1800 BX-11 class single-sheath wood outside braced boxcars built in 1929,
skipping many years and classes…
504 BX-41 class steel boxcars rebuilt in 1944 from earlier wood cars…
Thanks very much indeed for your guidance ,opinion and the eye opener of commercial rolling stock.This is very helpfull for me as my resources like books,mags,or videos are very little and also because the majority of modelers here model what they like or what is sold without too much filtering prototopical informations.Of course it is difficoult to find matching items for my project but this is what gives me pleasure to do reserching and getting the prototopical items is the essence of my project as my main interest is not just play with some model train but is to try to recreate as much it can be possible a piece of fashinating American model railroad history
Tony Koester promotes a modeling concept called, Layout Design Elements, also known as LDEs.
An LDE takes a snapshot of the prototype, and provides a realistic portion of that prototype to model – A “How-To” from actual reality to smaller-perspective – And then connecting those LDEs to create the final layout.
thanks very much for your imput.This is real excellent information for me.I heard about Tony and read articles on MR I will use this information wisely
I suspect the importance of accurate reweigh / rebuild data is directly proportional to your age - the older you are, the less likely you are to be able to read the tiny lettering, so you don’t worry about it.
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I’d say something kind of the reverse is a bigger issue. A 1940’s boxcar on a 1960’s railroad would be fine, unless the model represents a car repainted into a paintscheme too new for 1962. For example, Great Northern bought quite a few boxcars in the forties (including many built with wood sides due to steel restrictions during WW2) that would be still on the rails every day in 1962…but if your model represented a car painted into the c.1967 “Big Sky Blue” scheme, it would be wrong…and a lot more noticeable than a correctly lettered car with a post-1962 restencil date.
Like Stix said, you can worry about the minutea like weighing stencils but the fine print is small potato’s. The bigger fish is trying to find freight cars which are a close match to the cars real railroads owned. Having picture books published is one way to match them up visually with models and if you have an eye for detail, you can see which match and which were just painted for Santa Fe or Pennsylvania by the make just to have more variety to sell. Here is list I developed by doing this research myself but I also had a few others like Jim Eager review the list before I put it out on the web on this website: http://www.thrutherockes.com
Rio Grande HO models which are close/correct with dates purchased & main usage:
COVERED HOPPERS
Proto 2000 PS-2CD 4427 cu ft high side 3-bay covered hopper (gray D&RGW '67 & 3/68 barley & petroleum coke)
Wathers 50’ 4800 cu ft 2 compartment air slide covered hopper (orange D&RGW 11/71), gray D&RGW-ends are slightly different, 8/69 sugar beats)
Walthers PS-2CD 4427 cu ft 3-bay covered hopper (gray D&RGW 1964 potash)
Tangent Scale Models www.tangentscalemodels.com PS-2CD 4740 cu ft 3-bay covered hopper (orange D&RGW LO series 15400-15499 7/71 grain & minerals). This model is offered 12 road numbers accurately painted for DRGW. These models have many more details and finely scaled parts than most HO models.
Athearn PS-2CD 4740 cu ft 3-bay covered hopper (orange D&RGW LO series 15400-15499 7/71 grain & minerals) The gray model produced by Athearn was bogus.
Athearn 52’ ACF CF5250 3-bay covered hopper (orange large D&RGW LO series 15500-15559 3/73 grain
Thank you very much indeed for the guidance and the support.It means a lot to me to have your and other members support because it helps me achieve the gradual process of orientation in the world of American railroading in both historicl and practical modeling way
I think i can get the idea and i will rather try to concentrate getting the proper locos and rolling stock for the prototopical time period even if the fine printing dates are too old or too new as long the item has prototopical features to fit in the specific time covered
Thanks again for the load of informations i received i will keep them in mid and consult them when some decent item will came my way
As is the case with economics and manufacturing, the HO model train market has been full of products which “look” correct but are often not. To the casual observer, one train car is as good as the next. But if you want to obtain model trains which you can hold up to a photograph of a real car, this takes some effort and research. I used to randomly buy HO models and after about 10 years I bought some books which had roster photo’s of all the major classes of cars my favorite RR owned from the WWII era to the late 1980’s. It was a major eye opener and I found that many models I owned painted for Rio Grande didn’t match any freight cars actually owned by that RR. I sold most of them off now and have confined most of my buying to models I have checked out first. This includes other Railroad’s also because the Rio Grande was a “bridge route” which mostly took freight trains from the east and passed them to the west and the variety of the freight consists was great.
The list I provided above is based on my research and covers most of the models on the market in HO which match Rio Grande owned cars. It also includes a number of other railroads which I checked out but I don’t own the guides to the other RR’s can’t be as comprehensive. Good luck and have fun.
thanks again for your help is very much appreciated
I have decided that in the case of the ATSF boxcars i will use them to model the early 1960s even if on the fine print on the side one of the re-wheigh code read 9-69 .This model by Athearn are representative of that time period as at later stage they were being re-painted in red with shock cushioned slogan on the side I am also studing a possible connection with the DRGW as they seem to have had a joint line in Colorado or at least although rivals they connected at Pueblo
Long ago the Rio Grande and the Santa Fe were rivals trying to get through the Royal Gorge but eventaully Rio Grande won the passage while Santa Fe ended up with the route south of Pueblo over Raton Pass in New Mexico. (from memory).
During “modern times” or during the diesel era, until all the mega mergers, the Santa Fe and the D&RGW shared trackage between Denver Colorado and Pueblo (called the Joint Line). I believe Rio Grande owned one line and AT&SF owned the other but via an agreement they both used whatever line was expedient based on dispatching.
If you are interested in Colorado railroading in the 1960’s, there is an excellent book put out by the Colorado Railroad Museum in color. It’s called Colorful Colorado: Railroading in the 1960’s. It shows a lot of nice large photo’s of the Santa Fe, Rio Grande, Missouri Pacific, Rock Island, Union Pacific and Chicago Burlington and Quincy, mostly between 1965 and 1969.
I do most of my reserch on the Utahrails website ,several books of generic railroading ,and a lot of MR and trains magazines i manage to scoop from a bookstore
Utah Rails is excellent but I don’t think there is much info that will help you match up models with freight cars IIRC.
The real gems are the books published by Morning Sun Books which cover the rolling stock owned by various Railroads. Look up Morning Sun Books. The rub is there are quite a few different American railroads back in the 1960’s so you potentially could need to get 10 or 15 books to really be thorough. Or just get a few books which cover your favorite railroads and fill as much as you can from other sources. I’ve used magazines like Model Railroading (MRG) and Rail Model Journal (RMJ) which have contained many good articles about the prototype and help you match models to them. Jim Eager, who wrote the Rio Grande Color Guide to Passenger and Freight Equipment has also written quite afew magazine articles which help identify model to prototype matches, expecially between 1990 and 2000
The Internet is a great resource, especially for modern day railroading. There are tons of sites with prototype images of railroad equipment and scenes.
I model central Arkansas in N scale, late 1998, and have been able to build a large collection of images, downloaded to a memory stick for future reference.
Another great resource is Google earth. You can look at many railroad and non railroad scenes without even visiting your selected location. Really, just make it look right for your era.