I still carry an Elgin father time once in a while. My Hamilton 998 electric ry special keeps good time too, even if it is only 17 jewel.
Randy
I have my grandfather’s Hamilton 990 which needs repairs, which have to wait for now - the last time it went in it needed a roller jewel at $180. Even a cleaning isn’t cheap any more - the skills required to service mechanical watches are getting thin on the ground around here.
My daily-wear watch is a Citizen. I’m not a railroader, just prefer RR approved watches for the 24 hour numbers and easy reading face.
I’m an Engineer in New York. I typically use my circa 1966 Bulova Accutron Model 214. I find it to be as accurate as a modern quartz watch and stand up to the “rigors” of railroad life. As with any old watch, it needs servicing from time to time, so when the Accutron is being serviced, I use a Hamilton Electric Model 505, RR Special, circa 1963. This watch is a little more fragile than the Bulova, but it has kept good time overall but not as accurately as the Accutron. If a railroader today would like to wear a vintage watch everyday on the job, I honestly suggest an Accutron. Like a Model 214 or 218, Railroad Approved watch. They are accurate, hardy, and something you can pass down to your kids after retirement. Who could pass down an Indiglo?
By the way, our Railroad only requires a “reliable watch”. They never discussed anything about a standard watch design.
When I hired on the railroad as a fireman for Penn Central in 1971 I was told by a watch salesman in Weehawken yard that I needed a railroad approved watch. He sold me a Ball Trainmaster self winding watch for $300. It still keeps perfect time after 50 years and only one cleaning by Grand Central Watch. After I bought the Ball an old timer told me that a Timex would have qualified as a railroad approved watch.
I am aware ELGIN watch company is now out of business but didn’t they make railroad approved watches back in the day? Look at what the prices are now for an authentic and still working ELGIN? Holy Crap!!!
Fun to see this zombie thread pop up again! Some of the watches mentioned were Elgins.
Ball by that point was using Swiss movements, I think chronometer-grade ETA2821/2824, and giving them the special features for contemporary railroad certification (you can tell the Ball winding and no winding versions the same way as the Hamilton 500s/505s: they have a small spring clamp on the regulator arm).
Elgin did make B.W.Raymond railroad wristwatches, some with the funky Durabalance (which was set to positions with the balance wheel installed in the watch). They are still prized when they come up on eBay.
Elgin made railroad-grade watches almost from the beginning, first in 15-jewel and then 17-jewel, long before Ball developed the ‘standard’ in the early 1890s. These had the necessary precision to get reasonable accuracy when set to 5 positions.
Later Elgin pocket-watch movements had some of the same technological improvements Hamiltons did, but a couple of the models went a bit too far and used specialized pieces for which there are few spare parts. They also made railroad-grade movements that were finished like luxury watches for ‘private’ use – these were often for hunting cases (which by then had ceased to be ‘legal’ for new railroad use) and the Veritas and Father Time are examples. About the best it got in ‘railroad’ use were the 23j models with wind indicator.
My parents got me a single hour Accutron for my 21st Birthday. I inherited my fathers double hour Accutron after his passing.
Have had trouble finding anyone to properly service them.
My work watch is a Hamilton 992b Railway Special. I bought it about 20 years ago. I’ve had it serviced a couple of times, but the guy who did it (local jeweler) is now retired. I know of a couple of places near me that still can service a pocket watch in house. I don’t want my watch sent anywhere for repair. I’ve been warned that there have been cases when the watch returned, the original movement has been removed and a “generic” movement substituted.
My former watch guy looked up the serial number on my 992b and said the movement dated to 1943.
I also have a Seiko quartz “railroad approved” watch.
Jeff
Maybe this was answered earlier in the thread, but what makes any given modern watch “railroad approved”? Would, for example, a digital watch that self adjusts its time to the NIST time signal be railrpad approved? (yes, I understand it has to be a watch only - no “smart” watches allowed).
Progressive answer, as the little weasels at IT appear to be playing with the site code this morning, so I apologize for seeming incoherence or repetition:
Most of your answer will come, rightly, from current railroaders who know what’s required.
Here is some technical background (keep checking as I have to edit repeatedly before the site randomly erases…)
Any 32768Hz quartz movement that passes QC and initial aging is within COSC spec for ‘chronometer’ precision (which is also within the old Ball railroad accuracy spec, 30 seconds a week permitted deviation). It is my understanding that ‘railroad approved’ refers to the design of the dial, hands, and (when provided) illumination, not to greater accurization of the movement itself (e.g. with an oven or rate adjustment trimmer).
There are issues with self-adjusting watches. First, they tend to be relatively cheap and sloppy in free-running precision when the radio setting is installed, usually with the premise that periodic adjustment will keep them near a couple of seconds’ displayed accuracy anyway. The problem is then if the WWV or other signal is interrupted for any length of time – usually without warning to the wearer other than a cryptic icon at best – the watch may drift more substantially. There are also concerns with any mechanism that can arbitrarily change the rate of advance of the hands or (as in seasonal time change) the angular position of the hour hand either by fast advance or stopping. This goes double for movements that use the motor drive to the hands for other purposes (and therefore have reversible movement).
Remember that back in the day the lever set was not just to prevent accidental snagging of the crown – employees were not allowed to reset or adjust their watches. The time service did that weekly and tinkered with any regulator rate adjustment at that time. Interestingly, in the post-1891 timeframe, both watch manufacturers
Thanks, Overmod.
Since timetable and train order operations are almost non-existent these days, why would an accurate watch be necessary in a modern operation? Is it just for FRA hours of service? I’m having trouble figuring out why a watch that was, say, 2 or 3 minutes off would cause a significant problem.
The 16 size requirement did not go away with the advent of wrist watches. The 16 size requirement was for pocket watches only.
The time interval requirement of checking of watches by inspectors changed over time. The last that I saw under the “railroad approved” era was 24 months.
Jeff
There are still elements of operation that use time. Beginning and ending of MOW exlusive work zones, signal suspensions, time limits on track warrants, track and time, and other permits, etc.
That being said, the watch standards have been very much relaxed because of some differences in how the end of time limits are handled. In the “old days” if there was a specific end time for main track authorization, if you couldn’t be clear and couldn’t contact the dispatcher/control operator to extend that authority you had better be prepared to flag trains. Trains were going to run when that time expired.
Now, if you have an authority with a time limit, if you can’t be clear or get into contact to extend the time limit, the authority is automatically extended until the holder releases the authority to the dispatcher/control operator.
Time is still revelant, but not maybe to the extent it once was.
Jeff
Here’s a guide to do it yourself, or to make sure the right things are done:
http://linuxfocus.org/~guido/hamilton-992b/TM_9-1575.pdf
The specific technical instructions for 992Bs are pp.84-193
Here are some picture details
http://www.rdrop.com/~jsexton/watches/museum/hamiltonc415382.html
Well I do have a Hamilton, “The Watch of Railroad Accuracy,” but it’s not railroad, it’s one of these:
https://www.thepocketwatchguy.com/product/gtc/
You can find a lot of good stuff at gunshows, and not just guns!
4992Bs are full railroad grade, with the addition of the sweep hand. Not all of them have the GCT hour-wheel modification like the one pictured.
I believe a fair number of 4992Bs were converted from government service, some with the sweepwork removed, and sold for private (often railroad) service. As I recall, yours has a white 12-hour dial and in that form might have been ‘accepted’ on a number of railroads as such… how well do you know the provenance?
Thanks for the links. I don’t think I’ll be doing any “DIY” though. Taking it apart wouldn’t be a problem. Putting it all back, that will be a problem.
One of my co-workers collects pocket watches. He was at an auction where a set of watchmaker’s tools and parts were on the block. I think he said it went as a package and went quite high. I think he also has a Hamilton salesman’s demonstrator watch that has a crystal cover on the back.
For those who may have worked across two time zones, there was an option for having two hour hands. One was black and one was red. For railroad purposes, the time zone changes would be at a division point. Most crews probably wouldn’t cross the line, but there were interdivisional runs, usually passenger that might. In addition, dispatchers might have a territory on both sides.
Jeff