Good Morning and a Very Happy New Year to you all!
As I am converting to DCC in a few months - along with rebuilding my layout - I figured its time I started asking your preference on decoder brands. While I have 5 BLI Paragon locos with decoders, none of the Stewart, P2K, Atlas, Kato, or Spectrum locos are so equipped - so I better start shopping.
Before I actually ask the question, let me say that I know my way around a soldering iron and wiring (not electronics), and the new DCC system will be Digitrax Super Chief w/4 districts.
Sooo, my question is, what brand of non-sound decoders do you prefer? I am more concerned about quality and availability and support - with price being somewhat secondary.
It depends on what you are looking for in a decoder. You can buy basic ‘fleet’ decoders with 2 light function outputs and basic motor control in the $15 range. If you are looking for 4-6 light function outputs and ‘BEMF’ motor control, you can spend up to $25 for a decoder. NCE, TCS, and Digitrax all have decoders in both price ranges.
The other part of the equation is ‘form factor’:
Lightboard Replacements - These are specific to a brand/model of engine and you basically ‘swap out’ the supplied light board with the new decoder based one - they will cost more.
Wired Decoders - Most of these are in a small package with a JST 9 pin connector on the end of them. They may come with 9 loose wires or a JST to NMRA 8 pin cable so they can be plugged into a DCC Ready engine. You can buy various lengths/styles of DCC harnesses that work with these 9 pin JST decoders. This makes swapping out a decoder very convenient. A lot of the newer Athearn RTR engines have an NMRA socket and a short harness supplied with them - decoder install is very quick.
Check out www.tonystrains.com or www.litchfieldstation.com and compare featues/prices to get a ‘feel’ for this. There are a lot of dealers with very good decoder prices if you buy ‘in bulk’(4-10 decoders).
Older Steward F unit engines have no socket - I just hard wire them Most P2K engines from about the mid 90’s have a 8 pin socket, as do newer Kato/Atlas engines. The above 2 web sites and the manufacturers web sites have a lot of model specific decoder install info - Look for it and read up.
I just picked up a 4 pack of the NCE D13SR decoders and these are an excellent low cost fleet decoder. I used all 4 for hard wire applications in an eclectic mixture of locomotives. In one of the applications (A 4 car Eurostar trains set) the 4 functions were very useful for adding control to interior lights in the passenger cars.
My absolute favorite non-sound decoders are from TCS. The MC2 range in particular is a real favorite. It is really small, which makes it great for tight spaces. The TCS back EMF is superb and provides amazing low speed control. Plus the goof proof warranty is hard to beat. I also like the fact that TCS offers a range of harness models to compliment the decoders which can be helpful in particular applications.
I also run Digitrax decoders and have no complaints about them.
I use Digitrax decoders in all of mine. If you use the DH165 series decoders you can always add sound later. Many of the 165s have built-in current limiting for the lights so no bulb changes to worry about. Most of mine have been drop in or plug in conversions that go very quickly.
I have used Digitrax and TCS decoders for my older engines where all that was needed was the basics. Personally I like the way that the TCS decoders work much better than the Digitrax. Some of my Athearn blue box engines had a low speed growl with the Digitrax. When I switched to TCS the growl went away and the engine had a lot better low speed performance.
NCE D13SRJ, 4 function for most applications as stated before. Use a PNP harness if the loco calls for it or hard wire it in. I have installed about 30 of them and have not had a failure yet.
Another source of decoders and great information about what decoder to use in locomotives is from Tim Smith at Empire Northern Models. Tim’s store is only a few blocks from NCE.
Great prices and especially if you need a number of decoders.
TCS all the way for me - have over 50 of them in use. Great running characteristics, very quiet, best price for all you get including the Goof Proof warantee … I fried two of them (my own error) and they were replaced no questions asked !!!
TCS,NCE or Lenz. TCS is the way to go for performance and great lighting features. There rule 17 dimm when stopped and F4 is great. When used with LEDs the dimming is adjustable. NCE for the excelent ditch lights they have.
While I use Digitrax as the control system, I much prefer NCE’s decoders, for the simple reason that I prefer the way that NCE decoders support LEDs for lighting effects.
I have decoders from Digitrax, TCS, Bachmann (I think they are made by Lens), and Tsunami. I have been happy with them all. Once installed and operating properly, I have never had a decoder fail.
I am curious by your statement. I’ve always used Digitrax decoders and have never had the reason to look at NCE and others. What specifically do you like about the NCE decoders that I may be missing out on or is it how they’ve implemented the lighting effect feature ? I do agree that the FX3 functions that DIgitrax implements in the 163/165 series can be a little complex to program in the CVs but I’ve not found myself wanting for something else yet.
The main thing is that a 4 function, silent running decoder with full lighting effects and explicit support for using LEDs for those effects is only $12 in quantity. Individual MSRP comparing like to like, the DH163P is $12 more than the D13SRJ, with 2 more functions, or the DH123P is $3 more for 2 LESS functions. Based on on the running characteristics of a P2K Geep with a DH163L0 vs one with a D13SRJ - the Digitrax decoder isn’t worth $12 more.
Go figure, I used more NCE and TCS decoders than Digitrax ones on my Digitax system.
Ok, I can see that. With the 165s and the Soundbugs I can justify the cost differential. I was more concerned about other functionality missing in the 163/165 series that I might want to use later. I am not hearing that is the issue. It sounds like comparing the 123 series with the D13SRJ is where all of the functionality differences come into play, correct ? Couple that with the D13SRJs are cheaper than the 123s and more functional, they make more sense. I think that’s what you’re saying. The D13SRJs then might make more sense for me in GP60s, GP38-2s etc… where sound is not likely an option I prefer to explore.
About the only feature in the 163 not in the D13 is BEMF. And I never could 100% tune out the ‘jump’ in a DH163L0 (since the processor/code is the same in all DH163 series, the fact that this was the P2K board repalcement type shouldn’t matter). With a lesser quality drive it might make a difference but I had no issues with ultra slow speed switching using the NCE decoder without BEMF.
The DH123 series don’t have BEMF, so the price is really the selling factor here.
BTW I plan to get a Super Chief set but NOT a PS515 - the NCE 15V 5 amp power supply is usually $20 less and it’s the same thing! Go figure…
Wow, thank you for your input - it is valued and appreciated.
I listed out my locos that I will convert (25 - stewart F & Ft & VO1000 locos, 13 - P2K GP7/9 & PA & E & S1, 3 Spectrum steamers, 2 H16-44, 3 Atlas RS 1 & 4/5) - about 46 in all. From your postings, I gathered that NCE, Digitrax, and TCS were the most popular decoder brands. So I went to their websites and got the decoder numbers for each of my locos, and then went to a few dealers (Tonys & TTH, etc) and priced them out. As I would like to have most/all of my decoders from one manufacturer, I did some comparisons, and it appears ( I certainly could be all wet about this) that:
NCE seems to be the most readily available and least expensive and offers a lot of “4 packs”.
Digitrax seems to be the most expensive, and not as available as NCE.
TCS is less expensive than Digitrax, but more than NCE; and availability seems to be limited.
Of course the kicker in my “analysis” is that I can’t evaluate the quality of each - so while on the surface NCE seems to be the best buy for my situation, perhaps I would be happier with another brand.
Another really good dealer to check out is www.litchfieldstation.com I have had nothing but excellent service from Bruce.
If you are serious about getting all 40 odd locos decoders in one go, I would be very tempted to contact some of these vendors by e-mail and present the list of what you want and get a bulk quote. My guess is that you might be able to better than the on-line pricing in that situation. If I were in your shoes I would not stick to one manufacturer. Perhaps try a couple from some different sources and see what you think and like. For example I have the TCS MC2 in my Stewart VO1000’s and love the slow speed response with the BEMF that they have. I use the NCE decoders with 4 light function outputs for applications where that is more important to me. Your DCC control system will not care that the decoders come from different vendors. It is your choice of course, but I actually get some enjoyment out of having different decoders with different features.