What kind of Switcher is this?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
21

I was doing some more searching and info-finding. Here are my findings:

The Elko DT-2 is CPRail #15
The Canal Flats DT-2 is CPRail #14
Both appear to be soon headed to the Fort Steele museum to be restored.

It looks like 23 were made (EDIT: I found a site with a roster. They were numbered from 10 to 23. That means that there was 13 made) ,

I would be interested in ANY INFORMATION ON THE LOCATION OF ANY DT-2’S!

Here’s some info on what I learned

#23: Scrapped in 1985 [:(]
#22: Used by South Simco Railway,in Ontario (Thanks KVR Fan!)
#21: N/A
#20: N/A
#19: In Champion Park, Okotoks, A.B.
#18: Scrapped In 1977 [:(]
#17: Parts Machine for #22 at South Simco Railway in Ontario
#16: N/A
#15: In Elko, B.C.
#14: In Canal Flats, B.C.
#13: Location N/A. Last owned by “Skibstead”?
#12: Privately owned in Thunder Bay
#11: N/A
#10: N/A

(Just a Note about this: I used the ownership database to record some of the Numbers. It does not give me anything about the location, and it does not have B.C. on the list, so it is incomplete.)

A pic of the switcher in Canal Flats is also in a Book Called “Critters, Dinkys And Centercabs”

Ownership Reports of switchers
http://www.railways.incanada.net/industrials/industrials.html

Fort Steele Railyard Pictoral & Info
http://www.geocities.com/fortsteelesteam/First.html

A DT-2 Roster. No info on it, except for the loco numbers
http://www.trainweb.org/galt-stn/cproster/locomotive/0010s/0010.htm

“The Comprehencive guide to Industrial Locomotives”, “Critters, Dinkys, and Centercabs”, Along with the locations of switchers.
http://www.sonic.net/~jayreed/

Thanks for the Pics of #15. About the model: I am Thinking “If you want somthing done right, you gotta do it yourself” So I’ll see

22

Thanks for the info, Chris! There is a rare book that came out in the early 80’s called “Canadian Pacific Diesel Locomotives” that contains a wealth of info on the DTC’s and their original destination and disposition. Many were scrapped from what I heard.

#22 was obtained by South Simco Railway and still retains its original colours and number. I have a pic of it taken in 1998. It’s a tourist railway in Ontario.

http://www.steamtrain.com/

23

Would It happen to be this one?

http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Island/1284/ss22.jpg

I talked to a guy who works for the Fort Steele Railyard. The 2 DT-2’s are going to be hauled over this may so one could be used as a Back-up locomotive! I’m happy to hear that!! [:D][:D][:D]

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Having operated a D-T-C switcher (specifically ex-CPR #22) I can give you more details on these beasts. They are powered by two completely duplicated powertrains. The front powerplant powers the rear truck, and the rear one powers the front truck. The two powertrains cross over under the cab. The large access panels on the cab sides below the windows are how you get at the transmissions.

Each powerplant is a Caterpillar D337 diesel engine, with a TwinDisc clutch, torque converter, and two-speed reversing gearbox. This powertrain leads through a universal shaft to a final drive gearbox on the innermost axle of the truck.

25

WoW! Thanks for the information on they are powered! That was very interesting!

How many speeds did it have, and how fast could it go?

I’m hoping to get some more pics on one of them, and do some mesuring. I would like my model to be pretty close [:D]

I will redisign the “switcher Page” with all the information I have aquired. I’ll keep you posted.

Chris

26

The gearbox was a two-speed reversing affair. Low and High range, forward and backward. The unit was designated for a top speed of 35 M.P.H. in high range, and you were supposed to change from low up to high range at around 12 M.P.H.

However, sustained running below 20 M.P.H. is difficult in high range, as the engine RPMs are low enough that you have trouble keeping the air compressors running fast enough to make up the air you are using (control system, horn, air brake trainline supply). You sometimes need to switch to low range just to keep th e RPMs up.

The really odd feature of the design was the torque converter. It used diesel fuel oil as its hydraulic transmission fluid – from the main fuel tank! Once used in the torque converter as transmission oil, it is returned to the main fuel tank. In this way, the fuel tank (400 imp. gal.) acts as a very large transmission oil cooler!

The dual powertrain is a chronic problem in these units. Because of the two fully independent drives, if the two powerplants are not kept exactly synchronized, one always tends to lead, or pull, the other, which drags. In effect, the slightly faster powertrain pulls the unit along the rail, and the rail pulls on the other powertrain’s clutch. This very quickly causes premature clutch wear, and we are always repairing/replacing clutches!

27

I heard that the Cat D9 of the same era used the same technique.

How easy is the switcher to drive?

I just revisited #14 in Canal Flats. It’s in really poor shape. An interesting thing is that you can actually see where “Canadian Pacific” was painted over! [:D]

You know the yellow thing on the rear hood? That is a Cat torque converter. The rear of the engine under that hood is in pieces. Knowing what brakeman136 said about the drivetrain, the clutch probably gave out and they took it out for repairs.

Does anyone have information on #14? All I know is that CFI Bought it in 1968.

I’m not sure if I said this: #15 in elko was owned by Crowsnest Lumber before CFI bought the mill in 1978. I think it was remumbered from 25 to 651 before it was abandoned.

If anyone is interested in detailed pictures of both #14 and #15, send me an email. I have 6.75 Mb of pics on both of them.

Another interesting thing is that CLC made the gearbox that drives the wheels!

I also made a website on the dt-2:

http://www.geocities.com/puffie40/CLC_DT-2_Switcher.html

28

I recived word from my dad that #15 is going to be moved this monday (June 14) with #14 being moved the next day (June 15) (Interesting coincidence, eh?)
to Fort Steele. I’ll see if I can get some pics of one being moved.

Chris

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Dear Sir,

Here is a Link to a Newspaper Clipping of Two Cranes Unloading Ex CP 15 from Elko at Fort Steele, B.C. Ex CP 14 from Canal Flats was moved down, too.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/cdnlococo/detail?.tok=phFGfUBBzngEkVxn&.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.dnm=d4a1.jpg&.src=ph

When Built, both Units had Two Diesel Engines, one on each side of Cab on an Angle with the Drive Shafts passing beneath the Cab Floor and Driving the Opposite Axle nearest the Cab.

Drive Shafts Off Set to Pass each other beneath Cab to Differentials on Inboard Axles.

The Two Outside Axles were Driven by Connecting Rods Outside the Truck Frames from Two Powered Axles Next to Cab similar to Connecting Rods on Steam Locomotives. Wheels inside Truck Frames.

The ‘Front’ of the Locomotive was Marked by an “F” and was the End that put the Engineer on the Right Hand Side.

Throttle Shown in one of the Photos was similar to that used on some CN Full Size CLC/FM Opposed Piston Diesel Electric Locomotives. The Throttle Lever Horizontal Slot is “U”-Shaped with Forward using one Slot, Reverse using the Other Slot, with Neutral in the Front Center of the Slots

These Units were purchased by CPR to be Under 44 Tons so they would not require a Fireman.

The Engineers Hated the Units, as they were rather small and could not Start and, especially, not STOP Heavy Cuts of Cars not on Air Brakes.

Another reason they were disliked was that the Engineer had to work the whole Shift alone, rather than change off with the Fireman, then Eat and Snooze.

Cunning Engineers would abuse these Units and female dog and Whine and Snivel until they got a Baldwin, Alco or MLW Series AND a Fireman.

Several of these Diesel Hydraulics wound up working their last days for CP in the Main Shops at Ogden i

30

WOW! thanks for ALL of that info! [:D]

I would think the other DT-2 that worked in Coleman is the one that is in Champion Park at Oaktoks (That’s #19) #23 (I think #23 was eventually scrapped) was a parts machine as you said (As is #14 going to be for #15)

That would explain why the step ladders on the rear end was bashed in…

You know, if you give Fort Steele a pic of those plates (I would be curious as well! [:D] ) then maybe they could make some decals to replace those!

I guess a bell makes a nice novelty, so it could have been the first to get nicked…

…and decals in the cab to tell you the front and back

Crowsnest industries was under the ownership of Shell Canada before the mill was bought by Crestbrook.

[quote]
QUOTE: CP 14 Arrived at Canal Flats in 1968 and operated there until c. 1980. Track Lifted and Unit isolated. ( It replaced a Home Built Critter made from a Small CP Steam Locomotive Tender on Arch Bar Trucks that had a GM Diesel Engine CHAIN Driving one Axle be

31

I was working on the Kootenay Central Wyft. when CP 14 Arrived at Canal Flats in 1968. The Critter was then moved to the Pulp Mill at Skookumchuck which had just been Steamed Up.

I took Photos of this Machine Derelict at the Pulp Mill c. 1972 at the North End of Track beyond the Chip Dumper. Numbered 003 Painted Green over Orange with Crestbrook Railway on Side. Was on hand when Cut Up Spring 1974.

The CFI 003 was Cut Up next to Track 8, the Chemical Spur or Track 11 the Pulp Shed Spur at the Mill.

There was a Photo in the Cranbrook Paper at the Railway Museum of it when New.

Concrete for Traction was Poured onto the Floor where the Coal Bunker and Water Space was in the Tender and a Bay Window Grafted on to the Side. Door at End. MUST have been Hot in Summer!!

When they Cut the Unit Up, the Frame and Concrete precluded easy Cutting, so they just sliced off what they could, the Diesel Engine already gone, and Crestbrook used their Big Loader from Chip Handling to dig a hole and the Frame Shoved in right next to the Track. Still there?

The Scrap was haulled by Truck to a now-abandoned Scrap Yard on the Right of King Street beyond the Hulk of the Tudor House.

Photos CFI 003 at Skookumchuck and Class Plate ex CP 14 now at Railway Museum in Cranbrook.

The HS 5 Concept was to get rid of the Fireman and provide a Small Unit less Costly to Operate in Low-Useage Jobs. Good Idea, but not feasable to Crews used to Big Heavy Locomotives. Made their job more difficult as Switching Moves could get out of hand on Wet Rail with only Locomotive Brakes in Use.

A Locomotive that cannot Start it’s Train is an inconvenience. Just Uncouple a few Cars and move them in chunks.

A Locomotive that cannot STOP it’s Train when Switching without Air Brakes on Train is a Disaster waiting to happen! The Train We

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No. 15 was once assigned to the Victoria, BC switch job on the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway(which was at the time a division of Canadian Pacific) in the 1960’s. The locomotive lacked the power for the larger switch moves and was later replaced by a Baldwin DS4410 and later an MLW S4. These locomotives were a pain to operate, according to one retired E&N engineer he would rather have used one of the Budd Cars instead of the No.15.

This Ross Pugsley photo shows No.15 shoving a cut of cars into the Albion yard down Store St. in downtown Victoria. This was shot in the 1960’s. In later years the switching on Store St. was handled by a GM SW8 with the occasional GP9 or GP38 making the trip down the street as well. The Albion yard was removed in 1982 and the space it occupied is now the parking lot for Capital Iron. Service ended on Store St. in 1992 and the rails were removed in 1993.

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What a LOVELY Photo of CP 15 Switching on In Street Trackage in Victoria.

Until a Photo appeared in Mr. Greg Mc Donnell’s recent Book " Stand Fast, Craigellachie ", I was NOT aware the DT2 HS-5 Class had Worked on the Island.

I travelled there in 1968 riding from Cranbrook to Golden on Freight, then thru to Coquitlam on New SDs. Overnighted in Kamloops.

Sailed to the Island on the CP Boat and concentrated my visit around Nanaimo and Stockett Yard, all still Baldwin in the Pre-Uglification Maroon and Grey. CP 8000 had just received the “Script” Paint Scheme, and was “Pulling the Boat.” ( CP 7065 was at the Roundhouse in Coquitlam along with A-B CLC with the Now-Preserved CP 4104 Lead in from a Main Line Outing on a West Drag. )

Took the “Dayliner” Budd to Ladysmith to see the Logging and rode around on the BLW VO 1000 No. 7128 on the Log Job to the Saltchuck. The Ugliest Steam Engine on the Coast, No. 1055, appeared briefly.

This dubious ‘Honor’ is contested by No. 16 now at Kamloops.

Sadly, did not have time to make Victoria, nor view the Large CPR Bridge near Malahat once on the Main Line at Cisco.

Was not aware of the Extensive Terminal Trackage in the Victoria area.

CP’s last ‘Steam’ piece of Equipment, Auxiliary Crane CP 414325 was moved from Nelson, B.C. to Victoria in the Seventies, now too Preserved.

The brief visit to Victoria in 1980 did not allow time for any Railway exploration, but did cross a Bascule Bridge in downtown Victoria shared by CP and a Road. Protected still by Railway Semaphore Signals.

The Island was a great place for Railways Forty Years ago.

The Following Link has more Great Photos from Mr. Pugsley and of the move of the 15 to Fort Steele. Marvellous.

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo

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Not quite. 1055 still exists. It’s now Alberni Pacific No.7.

Both the E&N(CP) and CNR had extensive terminal trackage in Victoria at one time. Down Store Street, the E&N switched the Lucky Lager brewery, B.Wilson(Later Garden City Warehousing), Capital Iron, Kelly Douglas(they moved about a mile up the line in later years), Hafers Meat, Scott and Peden Feeds(later Buckerfields), and another meat packer in the now vacant Janion Building across the tracks from the current station.

Heading up the line now towards the Victoria yard, Immediately over the bridge was the CNR interchange, The Slades building(later a Thrifty Foods warehouse), Seaspan Intermodal barge slip connection with the Milwaukee Road, Victoria Van and Storage at the north end of the yard, Standard Furniture near mileage 1.5, Kelly Douglas(after they moved from downtown Victoria, their Vic West location is now a Real Canadian Wholesale store), Superior Propane at mile 3.3(Superior Propane was the last freight customer in Victoria and received shipments of propane twice a week until late 2001), Victoria Plywood at the Esquimalt siding, mile 3.7, BC Forest Products sawmill in Langford at mile 8.3, and a bulk Food store at mile 9.0. Today, the E&N has no freight customers in Victor

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Dear ENR 2099,

So much has changed in the last Three Decades. Travel has become Expensive and out to serve Yuppies and their SUVs and To Hell with everyone else… It seems it all has been a Conspiracy to abandon a Functional mode of Transportation for Public and Freight resulting in the Overloading of the Road System for which the Tax Payer will Pay, and Pay, and Pay. Fast Ferries, Anyone??? Anyway, lets not go there.

What IS very interesting in the Vintage Photos of CP 15 are the Details. Love the Small-Window Volkswagen which makes it a Pre 1959, I think. VWs came in only two or three earthy colours then.

There are TWO 2 different Types of CP Reefers in the Various Shots in the Pre Mechanical Reefer Days.

The Reefer in the 1962 View talking about the “Mystery Spur” is a Plug Door Reefer, with the Door in One Piece which Pulls Out, then Slides to Right like a Box Car Door.

The other Reefer in the Spur to Left with VW waiting is a Split Door Reefer with both halves of Door on Hinges. The latter Type were WAY easier to open from the Ground. Means the CP must have had an Ice House there.

Leads to where did they get the Ice? Probably a Mechanical Ice Plant somewhere to also Ice the Fishing Boats.

We still had to Get Ice ( and Briquettes for the Stove and Water in Pails ) for the Cabooses, ( Whats a Caboose?? ) when I Hired On. The Head End Trainman would get a Small Chunk from the Ice House Passing by with the Power to Cool the Galvanised Drinking Water Pail on the Engine.

There was a small Ice Chest under the Step down into the Nose on GM? A Units for the Water Pail.

Spent the Summer of 1969 amongst the Mosquitoes living in a Caboose at Canal Flats getting OUR Ice from a Wooden Sheathed Passenger Reefer ex “The Dominion.” Also known back then as Anal Flats.

The Bar there stil

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I actually like the “Multimark”.

Actually, it is (or WAS) at the far end of the lumber yard, not far from the metal waste site for the mill (Also called the “Boneyard”). #15 was near the edge of the mill property.

I Guess I could suggest that to Fort Steele.

while on the subject of moving, I was there to see #15 being moved. I took those photos on the one forum you posted the link to.

Did #14 work in the kootenays?

While I’m on it, it sort of sound like you work for the Cranbrook Railway museum!

[quote]
QUOTE: CP 14 did not last much longer after this Special Train.

The Logs are on Skeleton Flats modified by Crestbrook c. 1977 from about 20 Ex CP 1929 Flat Cars. These Skeleton Flats were in Captive Service Haulling Logs from Parson to Canal Flats. These Flats were Painted Dark Green, carried Reporting Marks ‘CFLX’ and the Crestbrook Diamond Crest.

If you are intrerested, a later version of these Crestbrook Skeleton Flats

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Wow, I can’t believe that a product of CLC (Canadian Locomotive Company Kingston ON) could generate so much talk and interesting information. A former neighbor of mine who worked at CLC was involved in the design of the transmissions of these " critters" .

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Dear Sirs,

Regarding the Multi Mark and CP Rail. As I said before, envision that Scheme applied to CP Steam Power, and you might get the Drift of what I mean. Would Look Horrid. Envision the Multi Mark Scheme applied to CP 15 Switching in Victoria in those Vintage Views. Would be as Jarring at that NYC Box in the Jade Green. The Stogy Tea Drinkers of Victoria would NOT be amused, especially in 1962.

The First CP Rail Car I saw was CP 352200, an Experimental Bathtub NON Rotary Drawbar Coal Car Lettered for ‘Coleman-Port Moody’ Coal Service. This Car WAS bigger than the Standard Bottom Dump Hopper Cars then in use, now Extinct, and was the Prototype for the Legions of Bathtub Coal Cars we see on the Kootenay Division.

This Glaring Red Car was like a Scream when positioned at Coleman for Loading. It could be seen on the Moon! Always drew a Crowd. A Coal Mine is Dark and Dirty.

Then they Received the New Big CP 343400 Chip Service Cars from Napanee Industries for the Pulp Mill at Skookumchuck. THEY were huge by the Standards of the Day and stood out like the proverbial Sore Thumb. These Chip Cars, New Covered Hoppers and the Unit Coal train Cars had the Hand Brake on only one end, Four Wheels, and would Slide the Wheels on that end instantly even Loaded, making all sorts of Flat Wheels which Damaged the Track.

( When the Unit Trains first came out, they always operated Loaded West, Empty East. This Set Up uneven Wheel and Brake Wear due to Curves and Brakes being used in a wear pattern in one direction only.

This caused the Brakes to Grab on Empty Trains, Skidding the Wheels. Whole Trains being affected. Bang, Bang, Bang on the Rails.

The CP Solution was to Turn Coal Train Sets at Fort Steele every Six Months or so to equalize the Wear… Worked well if only One Train on hand and Crew not Copulating the Canine.

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A correct term for a switcher like the DT-2 would be a “Centercab” [;)]

I would be interested in how the trasmissions were designed.

I think it had no number. It had “Crestbrook Forest Industries ltd.” on the entire side of the switcher. Nothing much. When I looked at #14 before it was moved, you could actually see the Canadian Pacific decals, and on the other side of the switcher, you could see the 14 where it was painted over. I wish I could have seen it when it was brand new in the paint job!

shudder Yeah, I agree with that. I just think the SD40’s looked good with that.[;)]

Also there’s all the enviromental regulations on the burning of stuff. If they wanted to burn somthing, they would also ship it over to Skookumchuck so it would at least get turned into something useful by the Co-gen plant.

Cool! I should look at the model that Atlas of selling!

Chris

40

Dear Sirs,

In all fairness, the CP Rail Scheme did not look too bad on the SDs once they figured it out.

The FIRST Version with the Small Stripes and HUGE Multi Mark was visually overpowering. Looked Dumb on First Generation Power, ESPECIALLY A Units!, but the RS2-3s AND H-Lines were right in there for UGLY, too.

The final version with the Wide Stripes on the Nose and NO Multi Mark was much more appealing. A CP 9000 was not that bad, either. One of the 9000s should be Painted Up in Maroon and Grey like a Big A Unit. These Engines are Rare, and had their day as Premiere Power on the Coal Trains c. 1990. Looked good Back to Back. The Multi Mark is what Sucked.

Years ago I worked at the Pulp Mill on the Old Power Recovery Boiler and they were talking about installing a Huge Saw Mill there and Blowing all the Waste to a “Hog” Boiler Fired on Wood like Castlegar and at the Coast… That was in 1982 or so. Watching a Chemical Mill Boiler Fired on ‘Liquor’ is Scary. Gallons per Minute Gunning in from those Spouts. Not a nice place.

It will be nice to see CP 15 Restored at Fort Steele, the ideal Setting for a Small Locomotive like that. They WERE a good little Engine when Operated within their Paramaters. Glad they are there.

Hope it gets the Mint Version of CP Maroon and Grey like on those Great Photos at Victoria. The HS-5 Plate is Cast Iron and one is Visible on the Photos of 15 in B&W.

There are several Models of the CP Train Master out. I see a Recent offering of the Passenger version with the Full-Width Short Hood that contained Two 2 Steam Generators. These Units are interesting as they were Purchased Specifically to Operate on Passenger Trains Medicine Hat-Vancouver which passed thru Cranbrook-the-Wonderful.

These Locomotives proved to be too Heavy and had a too-rigid 6 Wheel Truck for the Lighter Rail in use in th