I have a fairly large room, 21’ x 30’. I originally was thinking I’d make a 4’ x 8’ layout, with a figure 8 and some outside loops and a few sidings. But I notice that many of you (and others) have narrow layouts that are long. What are the advantages of narrow and long? What are the advantages of wider layouts?
I do want two things. One is the setting is going to be the Colorado mountains circa recent, but with old tourist train as well as the more recent stuff(this is probably N scale, could be HO). I do want a loop, so I can leave the train running without doing anything. Also, I want a dramatic canyon with a creek, a low train bridge over the creek and a high train bridge over the lower bridge. All stacked together right in the middle. There will be at least one tall mountain and some tunnels.
I have a temporary setup with two reversing loops (I am using DCC), and I think that is a fun idea. I can turn my train around and run it the other way (and turn it back around again! Of course I could do this with a long and narrow setup as well as my current 42" x 80" setup. Any DISADVANTAGES to these reversing loops? (Other than the complexity, which I think I have conquered).
I also wanted such a canyon, and here is what I am working on. I went around the room for distance and to have scenery go up into a backdrop. It is also MUCH harder to have a floor to ceiling canyon with a free standing table. I put loops at each end to have the circle. My grandkids like being able to walk aound the room with their train. That is much easier than around a table.
As Spacemouse has nicely dicussed, you get way more layout around the walls than in the center of a room.
I think a narrower along-the-walls layout makes access easier - once the reach is more that 2 feet it becomes difficult to reach trains and turnouts without damaging scenery. Granted, 4X8 will still allow you to reach the center, but depending on layout height and your where your mountain is placed, things could get difficult.
Also, it’s easier to put up a backdrop that can “deepen” your horizon and make your layout look bigger than it is. You can still do return loops by widening just the ends of the layout. OTOH, a backdrop down the middle of a 4X8 can be effective.
All-in-all, the along-the-walls seems less intrusive and eliminates, for the most part, access panels and lift outs you may need for the 4X8’s and larger. It also seems , at least to me, that your train is going somewhere.
Well you definitely have space for a lot more than a 4x8 so I’d take advantage of it. Since you already have the reverse loops, I’d stay with that schematic. It allows you to run your trains back and forth instead of around and around. This is the way they run in the prototype world. Also, if you had an around the walls oval, you would need access to the inside of the oval, which means a duck under or a lift out. I think reverse loops are much preferable an option to allow for continuous running.
Three things I think every good layout should have:
A layout design with a purpose. That purpose could be as simple as a showcase to run a modeler’s trains or as complex as running prototypical operating sessions.
Good bench and track work. No matter how good the trains and the scenery look, it won’t save a layout that doesn’t function well.
Good scenery. It doesn’t need to be super detailed, just convincing enough to keep the focus on the trains. Running over bare plywood or against a cement block wall is going to destroy the illusion of reality we are trying to create.
Yes and yes. Some people like super detailed rolling stock, others prefer to take it out of the box and run 'em. Some do spectacular scenery while others, like David Barrow on his new switching layout, use a picture or just a notecard to denote an industry.
I’m a big proponent of around-the-walls, linear layouts so I’d take that route. But that’s me.
I don’t mean to be cute, but it depends. If you take your cues from the judgements of others, it will be defined in their terms. If you use your terms, a layout that is true to them will be “good.”
The question is germane, because the referent “other” is going to change over time. One’s own learning will alter the rating of a layout over time, and that occasionally comes from the inputs of more seasoned modellers, whose own definition of “good” was so altered.
Since you ask, I’ll say that a good layout is one that can be altered, added to, maintained, and operated to the satisfaction of the owner for a time not less than two years. This is purely arbitrary, but so you know that I mean it, my own first layout did not pass the test.
The jury is still hearing evidence on the one under construction.
First, how much of a commitment in time and money do want to make? With 630 sq ft, you can spend $10,000’s and take years to complete and then several hours per month in maintenance. Better to have a smaller layout that get’s built than a large one that doesn’t.
Second, is what do you want to do? From your description, it sounds like you want a dramatic scene that the trains run through, sort of a railfan layout. A layout less than your whole room, say 6x15 with access from all sides, might fit your bill. One side is the dramatic scene and the other side is staging tracks where you can have several trains set up to appear as desired. One thing to consider for a mountain layout, is that you can have two or three non connected loops at different elevations, each with their own staging tracks.
A good layout, is one that you like to build and run trains on. Use of quality materials and sound contruction techniques makes it an enjoyable experience.
If this is your first layout, you should consider keeping the size on the smaller side while you gain experience and find out which parts of the hobby really appeal to you. Most of us end up building several layouts because it’s hard to tell what you will actually like until you build something and try it out.
The first thing is reliable trackwork. Few model railroad experiences are worse than operating on trackwork that is forever causing derailments or shorts. Get the trackwork perfect before worrying about scenery.
Accessibility is next. Have all trackwork, especially turnouts, easily accessible from the front of the layout. Or have access hatches located where you can get to any track or turnouts that require service.
Linearity - my railroad is essentially point-to-point, but I have built in continuous-running capability. Each train runs through a scene in only one direction. No over-and-under spaghetti trackwork allowed.
Dead frogs (this will be controversial with some of you) - My point rails are hardwired to the stock rails so there can never be a short caused by metal wheels contacting both at the same time. Also, there is never any loss of power with a point rail that doesn’t make firm contact with the stock rail it butts against. This arrangement also leaves the operator susceptible to prototypical derailments when passing through a switch with the points turned the wrong way… no short saves the day.
Plenty of opportunities for operations - sidings, spurs, interchanges, etc.
DCC for control. Nothing makes operation as enjoyable or as prototypical as not having to worry about toggle switches.
Wireless throttle. Way better than having a cord to plug in and out every time your train leaves town.
These are just a few of the ideas that went into my design. And I’ve enjoyed operating my system for more than 20 years now.
You can get an idea of the linearity of my layout from these shots:
Yes, that 21x30 foot room would make a great layout, but one which could quickly overwhelm almost anyone but an experience modeller with lots of time and cash on hand.
Depending on the arrangement of the room, required access to doors and windows, etc, you could probably make quite a nice “E” shaped layout, basically going around 3 walls with a peninsula in the center. At the ends, there’s enough space for loops, particularly if you’re building in N-gauge. For a start, download one of the free design programs and start planning a layout that fills the room. At some point, though, you’re going to realize that this is too much to start with. Keep your design, and maybe start on one end of it. Maybe you’ll need to put in a “shortcut” loop, but allow expansion.
As an example, I started work on my layout in March of 2005. At that time, I thought I’d have my 5x12 foot “island” layout pretty presentable by Christmas of '05. Well, here I am 2 years later, and I’m still thinking Christmas is a reasonable goal. Yes, I’m a lot further along, but I’ve discovered a few things. First, things really do take longer than I thought they would. Second, I don’t care that they take longer. I’m having fun as I do this. Third, plans change and improve. And fourth, my standards have gone up. Part of that is seeing what I can do, and knowing that a bit more care and time will make it better. Also, I look at the pictures on this forum and see what’s possible. And that’s where I want to be.
Well thanks for the input. The problem is I don’t really know how far I want to go with this hobby. One thing for certain, I am not going to design a huge layout for the whole room. I really like the mountain layout at Caboose Hobbies (the one with the Nn3 track on the top layer). Just add a big creek down the middle of those two mountains, and something like that would suit me fine (I think). Other than that, and making it expandable, I dunno.
Right now I have a figure 8, then two connecting outside loops (that make it reversing ), and another outside loop, outside of all THAT! But its just setup on my 42" x 10’ dining table and although its fun, I have NO IDEA if this is the sort of thing I want to make permanent downstairs.
It’s hard to think in 3d and I want MOUNTAINS! Skiers! Kayakers! Rock Climbers! and an old time tourist train. I am not sure how to make all these grades work.Everything I envision, the top tracks are 8" higher than the bottom. Lets see, at 4% grade that means 17’ of climbing track. Yikes!
Other than that, just as much stuff in the layout so I dont get bored (like at least 3 industries, a town and an Alpine mountain.
Just one tip: Never, ever allow a friend to paint your backdrop. No matter how good an artist he/she may be, he/she has never painted a mrr backdrop, or even if they have, it wasn’t very good. This rule especially applies to your wife, if she is an artist.
Guaranteed, you won’t like it, so you’ll either hurt someone’s feelings, or you’ll be stuck with something you don’t like. If someone presses you to do one, just tell them you want to enjoy the pride of self-accomplishment, even though they could do a much better job.
If you’re leaning towards mountain scenery, I’d say definately go for the around-the-room design. It allows so much more space and freedom it’s really hard to explain. You’d have to see both and compare them to get the idea.
I certainly understand why you’d be cautious about monopolizing an entire room for model railroad, so start small. Make a small yard that has a track leading into the mountains, with your loop there. As long as you don’t build into a corner or something, there’s always room to add on later down the road and keep expanding.
I just have Bachman snaptogether track (groan) and Bachman DCC transformer. I have three track sections. I cut my track with a hacksaw for isolation and I have two “DCC Specialties, OG-AR” auto reversing units. It works fine with my Atlas DCC equipped diesel type locomotives. I can run my Bachman steam type locomotive on “channel 10” but it has to stay in just one loop, it won’t auto reverse reliably. I had to wire up several extra power connections. Theoretically I should just need 3. I think it is the type of (isolating) switches I am using that requires power connections on just about every section of track between any two switches. THAT whole can of worms. But the DCC works fine. One caveat with Bachman DCC, NO SOUND!! Which doesn’t hurt with N scale, because no N scale DCC engines have sound. The Bachman DCC is inexpensive.
It all works. It gets me going. It wasn’t cheap. I’m having fun.
If you want to go up in a quick and short manor, might I sugest that you use a spiral. I know that Canadain Pacific uses a couple of them on Rogers Pass. I started my layout 10x6, and now am playing with layout designs for using most of the basement. I think that I am going to model a mountain pass with several levels of track. I think that the best way of getting them up and down will be to use spirals.
A couple of other DCC items. I see where Bachmann is announcing DCC sound. I don’t know if it would work with the Bachman EZ Dcc transformer I bought or not. Also, when I said I could run my Bachmann steam engine on DCC, I mean the Bachman steam engine is a DC engine, no decoder! It runs on the DCC transformer! So I can run two DCC diesels and one DC steam train all at the same time, all with their own throttle control.
Hi Pilot, your question really has a two stage answer: 1st is the mechanics. As Cmurrys items 1, 2 & 4 have stated. These are non-negotiable points, regardless of the style of layout you choose to build. 2nd is design oriented, as 3, 5 & 6 allude to. Item 7 is optional depending on how big you plan to build. (Although I’d agree on wireless.) You’ll get a thousand different opinions on this. As has been mentioned, your interests in the hobby will change with time. So to avoid much wasted time, effort, and money spent on building something you’ll eventually grow tired of and have to tear down and re-build, PLAN WELL! Get yourself John Armstrong’s Track Planning for Realistic Operation for a good start. This will give you some great insight into what can be accomplished. For example incorporate some kind of staging in your design from the start; you’ll never regret this. These can just be un-scenicked shelves adjacent to the scenicked area of the layout.
As for me, I’ll vote with around the walls every time, it just seems more realistic to have your train go somewhere as opposed to running in circles on a 4’ x 8’. As Jcorbett said, “build a layout with purpose.” With the space you have available, you can build one heck of a MRR! But as has been mentioned, it will consume much time and money if you want to fill that room in one shot.
IMHO, the best way to go is with some sort of modular construction. This approach will allow for future expansion, and also safeguards you against losing everything should a move be required. Keep the sections no longer than say, 6-1/2’ so they will fit thru a doorway standing on end.
Going by what you have listed as your druthers, I would start with a dogbone style layout. A straight section that connects two turnback loops at either end. This could be simply straight along your long wall, or it could curve around two, or three walls at one
