Hey Cappy,
There it is. All the great minds of this forum have weighed in now and the overwhelming conclusion is that LS’ers are from earth and everybody else is from … some other planet.
Walt
Hi Capt Carrales
I can relate to the small scale side of things and thinking about it
have come to the following conclusions
Jealousy doesn’t come in to it.
The NMRA’s non standard comes in to it
They don’t understand that our railways are in the real world so elephant proof rail is used as a matter of course and that a true “G” scale doesn’t exist and even if it did a “G” fine scale model has no place in the garden
As they have far too many fiddely bits that break too worry about
I also think that the early Toy rather than semi scale and inconsistency between variouse manufacturers in our size has a lot to do with it.
I do wonder some times if the casual BBQ beer and social fun aspects of the Garden fraternaty are mistaken for not taking the hobby as seriously as we really do.
I also think the Garden railway people concentrate more on the pleasure
our hobby brings to ourselves our families and others
as apposed to the indoor boys.
I have seen a real rip snorter of a heated discusion over the correct valve gear for a particular locomotive.
A thing unlikley to happen in the garden world
well that must be at least 4c worth[:D]
regards John
I think it takes far less effort to make a given scene outside, throw in some rocks and plants, track ballast ect with a loco and some rolling stock and your done in a couple of weeks… or more, you can have a realistic layout. Smaller scales are all worried about backdrops, benchwork, DCC, NMRA etc. Can anyone really see the detail on HO or N?
I think their just jealous over the natural lighting[:D], I’'ve seen several articals published where a smaller scale was taken outside to achieve what Marty Cozad does all the time " Is it real? or just outside?"
For me, modelrailroading allows the modeller to tasp into that part of themselves that always wanted to drive a train. Agree?
Well, the only reallife indoor trains I have seen are in metro subways. If HO moddelers were fair dinkum, their WHOLE layout would be in a tunnell!
The great trains of the world are outside! I’ve seen countless episodes of Casey Jones where some act of nature blocked the track. The Ghan in Central Australia always had to contend with flooded or washed away track. So when nature attacks my garden with it’sfuture railway in it, that’s an element of realism that the indoors mob would never get.
I have baulked on the idea for a few years now, basically because all of the sets that I had seen seemed small, almost childishlocos with little red carriages behind them. The HO range is phenomenal - allowing the hobbyist to recreate in detail what happens on the track in real life. However, from what I have seen lately, G scale is fast catching up. I want to run a real train around my garden, not a toy puffing billy. As G scale manufacturers conquer THAT problem at a similar cost, a huge pillar of support for indoor layouts will be gone.
The other factor is that a shed or a room for an indoor layout is an expensive thing to erect. My outside is already there. One acre of layout ready to roll!
NMRA members can be very cliquish. There were some (mostly gone now or have learned better) very active HO’ers in who didn’t consider any scale scale but HO to be real model railroading. Because of this there are a number of very talented N scalers who will have nothing to do with the organization.
NMRA standards are developed by volunteer members. Early large scale/garden railway modelers came from outside the established model railroad community. Most didn’t see any common ground with the NMRA , even if they had heard of it. More recently some small scallers have gone into large scale and some large scalers have joined and become active in the NMRA.
The NMRA did not, and in fact could not, come up with standards for large scale until there were members with the interest, knowledge and willingness to do so. The standards are not an attempt by the NMRA to take over. They are an attempt by some large scale modelers to impose some order and improve compatability.
It is probably too late in the game for the NMRA large scale standards to have any real affect.
I think Glen hit the proverbial nail right on the head. When you model a smaller scale in an environment that is never changing and everytime you look at it you’re looking at the same snapshot in time, then the only thing you have to work toward is being as faithful to that snapshot in time as possible. In the dynamic outdoor environment, you have to deal with sudden rainstorms, trying to plow snow off your rails, high winds, animals crossing the track, washouts, UV damage that needs constant repairing. Couple that with living growing plants that every year make your railroad look just a little different than it did the year before and the difference becomes more of a chasm than a schism.
To each his own, I say. Long live the ten foot rule.
Mark
I am one of those who like both HO and G, I dont look down on either, but what i have found is slightly different.
within the HO group, you have sub groups, those who are “make it look real or else” and those who like me, just want to have fun. I find that the two cant mix too well even within the same scale group. What i also find is that usually those that are not open to the idea of G scale are the same people who are the hard core realism modelers. i approach it like this, have fun, if not dont do it.
those that spend hours and hours trying to make their foam look like real rock, i have this to say, use real rocks, thats what i am going to do, my HO layout has a rock face and i will use real rock to do it, why? its better, its easier, and the rock was FREE.
I cant wait for spring to come, i want to build my G layout this year, i really do.
Kevin
I have been a “scale” model builder for years. I’ve actually spent many of my adult years doing it as a proffesional “design engineer” aka model maker. I have found that when I get too serious about details (recreating reality in miniature) it tends to take the enjoyment and relaxation away from what was originally suppossed to be a diversion from reality.
This is only MY opinion.
Well gentlemen you have plesantly surprised me, we actually have some brains amongst us, amateur philsophers even.
I tried to join the local railway club here on the Sunshine Coast and found that the peole involved were lame brains and the subjects they talked about were very small. Small people talking about small subjects in a very small way. Cauvanistic, egotistical nig nogs, is what i thought of them.
However the Garden Railway club I belonged to in Sydney was a different matter, odd people certainly, as are many people in model Railways. However we met monthly in different peoples homes / gardens; the actual meeting took about ten minutes the “runnings” took hours well into the night and very occasionally all night. Not just a bunch of blokes talking about very little, but all sorts of people from grandads to little kids. Have a glass of wine if you liked, have a barby; all outside and in the great Aussie sun.
You could give me the biggest indoor HO guage layout that was in existance and i would not accept it.
Regrds
Ian
Thank you folks,
This has been a very fruitful topic for my continuing education in all things Railroad.
Has anyone ever attemped to try to use the “screen and plaster” method outdoors? Could it be done with mortar or cement? It this less viable than building a real mountain out of gravel et al?
Hey Ian, do you mean “amateur” philosophers or “immature” philosophers?[(-D][(-D][(-D]
Small minds talk about small things, large minds get great things done…
[oX)]
Cappy,
Our friend OLD DAD, who no longer visits our forum, Has done just exactly what you’re talking about. He shapes his mountains out of a wire screen (hardware cloth) armature. He then covers it with several layers of mortor. He then applies the last mortor layer and “sculps” the rock detail into the still wet mortor. And last, he colors the mountains with a cement dye. The results are realistic and beautiful. You may recall that he’s in MN where the temperture swings from a summer high in the 100’s to winter lows down to -30. Despite the climate, his cement “mountains” have survived many years.
Walt
That sounds very interesting, I may try some of that. Now that you mention it, I miss OLDDAD.
Capt Carrales
CAPT.
I went back through the forums , in DECEMBER of 04 looks like he last posted, ben
Walt, do you and Old Dad still converse? I hope he’s doing well.[:)]
Matt,
Larry and I still converse from time to time. He and the family did a Disney trip before Christmas. All is well there. I too miss seeing him on the forum. Maybe I can coax him into coming back. Later eh…Brian.
Bman, His signatures always made me smile! He’d go from Old Dad to Grumpy Old Dad[:)]
Ah hi gang.
Very interesting thread. I came across it searching for some forums to poke around, to find out more about Outdoor Model Railroading. I had until 3 weeks ago a burgeoning N Scale layout. My layout was progressing, but I had finally gotten tired of family in house, me in garage, and just decided to give up on the whole thing. eBay’d off most stuff already. Rest will follow soon. Not an easy decision. I’m hooked into the N Scale world pretty tight. Even moderate forums on a couple of N Scale sites.
Daughter (11) has her own HO layout that receives scant attention for similar reasons as my N Scale layout. She’s resisting the eBay route to some extent.
Well she was resisting, now she’s all for it.
What happened? Wife, son, daughter and I visited The Living Desert this weekend. Wow, what an eye opener. All I knew about garden railroads was what runs around the ceiling of the dentist and barbershop here in down. Oh it actually to different offices. My barber does not pull teeth also.
Back to the story. Daughter agrees, sell off the rest of the N and all of the HO stuff and build one outdoors. Even my son says, “Dad, you build one of those and I’ll even help.” Quite a statement by a kid who, when not on a pitching mound can be found non-stop in front of the xBox.
Going to be interesting hanging around here.
SKMoss,
Welcome!!! I think you will have a good time here. This is one of the best places for Large Scale Trains and information en re all thing G and F scale. Read the old posts, make some friends and bring your triumphs and failures to us and we will be more than glad to help you!
From whence do you hail? I’m banging a keyboard in South Texas!
Capt Carrales
Capt,
I currently hail from Temecula, CA. Sorta between San Diego and L.A. Western edge of the desert. I know some about So Texas. Grew up in a prarie dog town called Abilene.
Be happy to bring my failures. Figure I’ll have more than enough to go around. As far as triumphs? Bah, I don’t need no stinking triumphs, triumphs are for wimps. Give me a good ole MGB. (Ok lame attempt a Brit Sport car humor, sorry)
Will have a half billion questions before I make a commitment to acutally building. It looks like yet one more expensive hobby. Prolly the first one will be post under the heading of “How to keep a golden retriever that thinks every thing is her toy and any place daddy dug is prolly hiding a bone, off my railroad.”
Anyway, Capt, thanks for the welcome.