Great info Rich. Just wondering how many holes do you drill per one section of flex tarck? I would say three? Spaced symetrically? FrankG
As long as you have a set of micro drills, you can find one which is about the same size as the pre-molded hole on the underside of Atlas code 83 flex track. Either that or select a drill that is a bit larger than the track nails used. A pin vise will hold the bit and it only takes a moment or two to drill the hole.
Next I’ll address the opposition in this topic (below).
Almost all cases. Sounds messy and risky.
I prefer to not use adhesives for the following reasons:
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it is very easy to pull out track nails or spikes if track needs pulled up in the earlier stages of layout building - I’ve had to do that numerous times for different reason and am very thankful it was so easy.
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almost no likelihood of damaging track that is pulled back up before ballasting
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no cleanup up of bottom of track of any adhesive
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no waiting 24 hours for adhesive to set up. Can move on without any delay, track is down and in place now.
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Once adhesive has set up, if track is the least bit crooked or out of alignment, you have to peel it back up to correct and/or adjust. With nails, you can make minor adjustements without removing the nails; easy to pull out if track needs more than minor adjustments. I’m picky about smooth flowing track so I would not like to wait 24 hours and find things are not to my liking
You really ought to give it a try, just one scrap piece on a scrap board. I was initially skeptical about both caulk and extruded foam when I read those articales back in 94 or 95. Before starting a lyout using these new ideas, I made a short test section. I used that to try seceral things, including ways to have a siding drop below the level of the main track, and various options for applying ballast (which is how I know the “wet water” with a drop of detergant simply does not work around here but alcohol works perfectly.) On my last layout, when I was in a track laying groove, I just kept on until I ran out of push pins. I did most of the loop in one day (missing the chunks where I was planning to build liftouts) but that was the last of that - now that I could actually operate a train between point A and point B, most of the time I had available I was running trains, not building anything, so progress beyond that point took months.
–Randy
Sure, push pins between the ties and into the cork roadbed secure the track until the caulk is dry. I guess if you have to realign the track after 60 minutes or so, that might create some issues. But I assume most alignment issues can be discovered and remedied by the time the caulk dries. Most products recommend overnight anyway, and it tends to stick to the roadbed more than the slick plastic ties if you want to lift the track after that, unless you use too much.
Saves a lot of predrilling time.
The code 83 flex do not have pre-opened holes all the way though, only partly through from the bottom.
It’s a couple seconds per hole, so not “a lot” of predrilling time. A fraction of the time vs. time you’re going to wait for adhesive to set-up.
Ok. I just reemphasized the push pins since I think that part of the process was normally left out of previous discussions. They help to make the curve and the track can be adjusted and resecured as the adhesive dries, if needed.
There is no reason to wait for adhesive to dry on the previously laid section as you work on the next section. They are independent of each other. Do curves or loops at the same time to minimize kinks at the joints. Adhesive dries while you sleep.
But whatever way is comfortable.
As I mentioned in my first post, I simply flip the track upside down, then use pliers and a track nail to pre-open the holes moulded partially through the ties.
Wayne
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All my layouts have been built on plywood, and you are 100% correct.
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We always drilled the track ties for clearance, and drill pilot holes into the plywood for a snug fit.
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We drove the nails home with a special tool I made that touched the rail heads before it drove the nail in far enought to put stress on the ties.
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Now I have Homasote for my final lifetime layout.
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-Kevin
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My track is on cork atop plywood or directly on plywood, and the track nails I use are long enought to go right through the cork and into the plywood. On the 400’ or 500’ of track on the layout, all but perhaps a half-dozen nails were pushed into place, as I described previously, with blunt-nosed pliers.
Of the half-dozen which required a drill, at least a couple of them were because the nail had hit the head of a screw, affixing the plywood to the framing. The drill (in a pin vise) didn’t have much impact on a metal screw, and in those cases, I simply drilled a hole in another nearby tie, and used the pliers to install the nail.
Admittedly, once the nail has gone through the tie and the cork, there’s not a great deal of length left to penetrate the plywood, but all of my five staging yards, all of the industrial sidings and a lot of the main line is directly on plywood, and no hammer was used for any of the track nails on the layout, and a drill only for the few mentioned.
Wayne
I wonder if the quality/type of plywood makes a big difference?
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Down here, we get plywood that sometimes seems like it is more glue than wood, so we opt for more expensive hardwood plywoods for layout building.
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-Kevin
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This may sound a little odd to you guys. I’m relaying what one of the members in my Railroad Club told me this morning. This method applies to N scale, so it may not be of use to many of you and may only be feasible on a larger scale. I just found it interesting.
My friend did mention he had plywood that was so hard, to drive or push little nails in without a pilot hole, was next to Impossible.
The catalysts, resins, adhesives and polymers in todays plywood’s dry extremely hard these days. That’s all I have to say on that subject. If you’re not shooting nails with pneumatics… well you get the picture.
He told me he coats his cork roadbed with matte medium because it is slow to dry and provides a longer workability time than caulk.
His layout is huge, I have been to his home and seen it. He has long straight runs that go the whole length of his basement.
He gets his straight run of flex track set up to the side with track joiners installed ready to go. He gets the matte medium spread on the cork and sets the track by hand in workable increments.
At this point he lines up full pop cans or beer cans on top of the rails. He said he only has to schmooze the cans with very little effort to line them straight. Cans interlock with each other and naturally balance between the rails. The physics of it keep the track nice and straight. I have looked down his straight runs, they are nice and straight.
I think I remember him saying he uses the little round plastic bulletin board pins at angles to adhere his tracks around the curves.
TF
That’s a possibility, Kevin. I used 3/4" 7-ply FirPly for my cut-out roadbed on the original portion of the layout, and 5/8" T&G FirPly, (5-plies) as sheet material on the partial upper level.
While it’s definitely not hardwood, it does have different characteristics, seemingly based on whether an area is in the dark-coloured grain or the lighter portion of the sheet. I didn’t notice any difference in nail installation between the 3/4" stuff and the slightly thinner sheets, but there’s no telling what the make-up of the interior plies might be.
I’ve used hardwood-veneered plywoods for building furniture, but wasn’t aware that plywood composed of all-hardwood was available.
Wayne
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I cannot be sure, but I think only the two outside layers are hardwood. They are a different color when you cut the sheets.
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-Kevin
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If you buy Baltic birch plywood or Russian birch plywood every ply is birch veneer. Great stuff if you can find it and afford it.
Dave
After a little digging, I found this from the Canadian Wood Council:
DFP is produced to the manufacturing standard CSA O121 Douglas fir plywood, where front and back faces are Douglas Fir. Veneer for inner plies can be any one of 21 listed species, including Douglas fir, western hemlock, and most spruce, pine and fir species in Canada.
I used the 3/4" g1s version for my cookie-cutter roadbed on the main level of the layout, and 5/8" t&g sheets meant for sheathing, with no sanded faces, for the plywood deck of the upper level. Pushing nails into either required similar force, although I should note that most of the upper level’s mainline is Central Valley tie strip, with M.E. code 83 rail, both cemented in place with contact cement - track nails were used on the turnouts and for the flex track used in the engine terminal and also all of the staging yards.
Wayne
I’ve been using nominal half inch OSB and can use Atlas track nails on it. I do bend a few but mostly it works fine. OSB has worked quite well for me so far on several layouts.