I Will have some 20" curves that the train will have to traverse. The radius cannot be changed at this time.
what mfgs. passenger cars would be the best?
David,
While I’m not a huge MTH fan, I did purchase their NYC 20th Century Limited passanger cars and have been very happy with the quality. And the lighting modules are quite nicely done.
The cars power up on the track so there are no batteries to turn on and off and there’s no flicker. They have good caps because it takes ~5 min. for the lights to completely discharge once the power is shut off on the layout. If you want or need to access the interior, I read that the roofs are MUCH easier to remove than Walthers passenger cars. IIRC, it’s only a couple of screws and it pulls right off.
Granted, the MTH cars will be a little more expensive than the BLI versions but they’re worth the price; at least they were - for me - for the 20th Century Limited cars. That said, the minimum radius for the MTH cars I believe is R22" so that will probably be pushing it for your R20" curves. And the BLI versions may end up being the same.
Tom
[Edit: I checked the BLI website and the passenger cars do have a minimum radius of R22". The shorter Athearn cars, as Mel pointed out, may be the only option for you.]
I would say it depends on what you’re looking for. I’m not a rivet counter and the Athearn 72 footers work out very well for me. I had to go with the 72’ cars because all the turnouts in my yard are 18”. The Athearns easily handle an 18” radius. If you’re going with the SP Daylight color scheme the Athearn cars are well painted and the lettering looks good too. If you want interiors or lighting you will have to do that yourself.
I have two Daylight passenger trains, the Shasta and Golden State pulled by either E7s or PAs.
Edit:
If you’re into kirbashing the Athearn shells are easy to do your own thing on. I kitbashed a pair of Vista Dome cars into SP ¾ Dome/Lounge cars.
[quote user=“RR_Mel”]
I would say it depends on what you’re looking for. I’m not a rivet counter and the Athearn 72 footers work out very well for me. I had to go with the 72’ cars because all the turnouts in my yard are 18”. The Athearns easily handle an 18” radius. If you’re going with the SP Daylight color scheme the Athearn cars are well painted and the lettering looks good too. If you want interiors or lighting you will have to do that yourself.
I have two Daylight passenger trains, the Shasta and Golden State pulled by either E7s or PAs.
Edit:
If you’re into kirbashing the Athearn shells are easy to do your own thing on. I kitbashed a pair of Vista Dome cars into SP ¾ Dome/Lounge cars.
I knew the 85’ passenger cars were not going to work but was unsure what was available In smaller sizes.
Thanks guys for your help.
Dave
David Fortney,
I have an Atlas RS3 #357 letered for Cotton belt in the Black Widow Scheme and I was planning on using a set of MTH Daylight cars for it (MTH 80-60029) and (MTH 80-60004).
ATSFGuy,
what size are those cars, 80’ or 85’ or something else.
dave
Dave,
Each car measures 11-1/2" x 1-7/16" x 1-7/8".
The MTH cars are long, not going to work on your curves.
The ConCor cars are most likely in stock and available directly from ConCor. They are generic freelanced 72’ smooth side streamliners - baggage, RPO, coach, diner, dome, sleeper and observation.
The Athearn cars will be more of a search, but have beem made recently enough that they should be out there.
Athearn cars are fluted sides, also generic 72’, baggage, RPO, coach, diner, dome and observation - no sleepers.
Daylight paint schemes on both are pretty well done. The older versions of the ConCor cars can be a little light, but recently they have upgraded the trucks/wheel sets, couplers and added weight.
Both brands track well, especially newer releases with all metal wheels.
Years ago there were articles in MR and RMC about kit bashing them into articulated coaches and diners for the Daylight trains.
And considering that some of the Daylight coaches were only 77’, some of them are not that far off.
They all have truck mounted couplers which is generally better for long cars on tight curves.
https://www.con-cor.com/website/product/ho-72-ft-passenger-car-southern-pacific-daylight/
Athearn has also offered their 72’ heavyweight cars in Daylight colors:
Thanks Sheldon for the info and the links. A big help.
Dave
I’m going to add a bit to Sheldon’s post. He is correct about the Athearn cars, they track very good in tight curves and the truck mounted couplers work very good. I tried some IHC interiors and they work but I ended up Building my own using Styrene sheet stock. I did make molds of the IHC seats and use them in all my passenger cars.
I’m currently redoing my LED lighting in my entire Daylight fleet and that brings me to rail power. The Athearn trucks have Delrin frames and that means wipers. I tried the Athearn axel wipers and I could never get them to work without way too much flickering, keep alive caps didn’t work. I now use Lithium batteries but that’s another story.
I also added some weight to the cars by filling the center depression with #8 bird shot, about 2½ ounces.
If you are into kitbashing the Athearn cars are very easy. If you are an SP freak like me you know that the SP did their own kitbashing of their passenger cars one b
If correct length and interiors is not important to you, take the Athearn cars.
But if you like to have correct car lengths and interiors (and interior lights), then you can go for the MTH cars. They do indeed run through 20" curves without any issues. I saw them live in operation through 20" curves and I can assure you that the cars ran through it very nice and smooth. No derails, no binding, no nothing.
By the way: MTH released both the SP GS-4 and the SP Daylight cars in DC and AC versions. The DC versions have 22" stated as minimum radius, but the AC versions have the Märklin R3 radius stated as minimum radius, which is equal to 20". It´s the proof that both GS-4 and Daylight cars by MTH can handle a 20" curve without problems.
If the MTH cars won’t work for Dave’s layout, can I just use them along with my Cotton Belt RS3 (Black Widow Scheme) on my module club’s layout instead?
Respectfully, a few thoughts.
A Marklin track system car will have completely different trucks and couplers effecting minimum radius.
The DC cars may well run through nearly perfect 20" radius, but they will look terrible. And to run any 80’ car on curves that small requires wide gaps between the cars - that spoils the scale effect anyway.
I close couple my 72’ cars, with working, always touching, diaphragms, they will run on curves down to 26-28" radius. With the stock coupler arrangement the Athearn cars will be comfortable on 18" radius and look better doing it.
Just my view,
Sheldon
Since we are discussing the SP Daylight here, aren’t the articulated chair cars only 72 feet or so long? How does this affect their curving ability and appearance? I’d guess that the articulated joint would need to be pretty flexible to make 20" or 22" curves and it might make 18" also.
Athearn made some scale SP cars recently as well as the old pattern former Blue Box cars. These are in the Genesis range and are intended for 24" curves. They are only 77 feet long. Presumably so are the other scale models if they are accurate models… so they might look better on sharper curves. Amazingly for Athearn, they appear to be available at $69.98.
But even the Athearn Blue Box cars as made for their current ready to run line look very much like scale Daylight cars except for the corrugated roof (the Daylight cars were all Pullman built). And at 72 feet long, they are only 5 scale feet short, not 13 feet since the prototype was 77 feet long, not 85 feet…
M636C
Actually, those 77’ chair cars measure more than 80’ over the buffers. The 77’ measurement does not include the vestibule on the end, a common prototype way of measuring passenger cars.
Yes, they are shorter than most other lightweight cars by about 5 feet.
And yes, the articulated cars are even shorter, but, what controls minimum radius is the wheel base between the truck centers and the asmount of coupler and truck swing. So the articulated cars are effectively not much shorter, if any.
Over the years a number of people have kit bashed the Athearn cars into the articulated chairs and diners, it makes a reasonable freelance version.
As for what radius the Athearn 77’ chair or other brands articulated cars will handle - giving them a try is the best test…
But again, at least to me, it is not just about getting them around the
Not exactly…
I’ve checked the Pullman drawings…
The original 1936-37 built Daylight cars had 53’ truck centres and were 77 feet over the corner pillars (including the 3’ vestibule), 79’2" over couplers
The cars built in 1939 and later had 54’10" truck centres and were 81 feet over couplers. 78’10" over corner pillars.
The same truck centres were used on articulated cars. the 1936-37 cars were 66 feet between coupler and articulation pivot and the 1939 and later cars were 68’10" between coupler and articulation pivot.
That suggests to me at least that scale models of the 1936-37 cars, if designed to allow for it, could use curves not much larger than the slightly smaller Athearn Blue Box cars, although Athearn state 24" minimum for their cars.
This does raise the question of which version the MTH and Broadway Limited models represent, the shorter 1937 or the longer 1939 cars, both single and articulated.
M636C
[quote user=“M636C”]
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Actually, those 77’ chair cars measure more than 80’ over the buffers. The 77’ measurement does not include the vestibule on the end, a common prototype way of measuring passenger cars.
Yes, they are shorter than most other lightweight cars by about 5 feet.
Sheldon
Not exactly…
I’ve checked the Pullman drawings…
The original 1936-37 built Daylight cars had 53’ truck centres and were 77 feet over the corner pillars (including the 3’ vestibule), 79’2" over couplers
The cars built in 1939 and later had 54’10" truck centres and were 81 feet over couplers. 78’10" over corner pillars.
The same truck centres were used on articulated cars. the 1936-37 cars were 66 feet between coupler and articulation pivot and the 1939 and later cars were 68’10" between coupler and articulation pivot.
That suggests to me at least that scale models of the 1936-37 cars, if designed to allow for it, could use curves not much larger than the slightly smaller Athearn Blue Box cars, although Athearn state 24" minimum for their cars.
This does raise the question of which version the MTH and Broadway Limited models re
I like to thank all the people who posted to this thread and help me make a decision.
I have decided on the Athearn 72’ cars. They not only look great, painted very well and they will look great going around my curves.
In time I will add interiors and lights.
David if you end up making your own interiors this site has floor plans and pictures of the SP passenger cars.
http://spdaylight.net/Consist.html
Edit:
This is a link to the ESPEE site ¾ Dome/Lounge floor plans.
http://espee.railfan.net/images/sp_domecar_plans.pdf
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951