you had a huge collection of postwar Lionel items and wanted to build a scale layout? You have realistic models, though they are semi-scale at best. You don’t want to buy new equipment for a layout, but don’t have much room, say, 21 by 19 feet.
I have been in a very similar situation. All through the '80s and '90s, I was involved with 3 rail O. I built a series of 4x8 layouts that I enjoyed with the kids. Although most of my items were MPC, there was some postwar. I particularly enjoyed the operating cars and accessories, and had most of the classics.
As the children grew older and less interested in trains, the narrow gauge and scale bug bit pretty hard. I started down the road of a raised HO oval just like some of the Lionel display layouts. I added a spur for switching. Then I realized On30 would also run on that same HO track. So now I could have 3 sets of locomotives and rolling stock in a single compact layout.
Next I designed a layout where the 3 rail O would represent standard gauge, and the narrow gauge would be On30 (the idea is not unique to me!). This would allow a layout in a reasonable space. But my growing interest in switching operations and more realistic appearance was the downfall of the idea. The lower end Lionel locomotives do very poorly at switching speeds, especially with traditional Lionel transformers that start at 6 volts or so. And IMHO, O scale scenery at any reasonable compression eats a lot of space, fast. Any structures and trees would have to be severely compressed caricatures in my limited space.
So I bit the bullet, sold off the Lionel that wasn’t going to be passed on to the kids, and bought into HOn3 instead of On30. I’m happy with my journey, but the Lionel/On30 alternative is a pretty attractive one, too. And actually probably cheaper than H
I would do what perhaps thousands of other people have done, and build a “hi-rail layout”, which incorporates both scale and semi-scale together. If you use the more realistic track made by Atlas or Gargraves, and build scenery like you would a “scale” layout, you can get quite good results. After all, that’s really how the hobby started, people taking “toy trains” and doing realistic layouts with them.
O Scale Railroading magazine is a good place to go for information. (Be sure to watch the preview video for the latest issue.) They’re about the only model railroad magazine that doesn’t discriminate between “scale”, “hi-rail”, and “tinplate” railroaders.
You might also want to check out Norm Charboneau’s webpage, and check out the “weathered trains” pics and watch the videos of his layout. His layout was also featured in Vol.2 of the “I Love Toy Trains” series of DVDs.
Please don’t waste the forum readers time with “hook” titles like:
What would you do if…
Titles like this appear to be calculated to sucker people to take the time to open the topic and find it is of not interest. The more I see titles such as this it only encourages me to skip over them more and more, but today I had to learn again the hard way.
Please post titles that summarize what the topic is about, then I can decide as I skim the forums I it is of interest.
Much appreciated.
Unless you are truly disillusioned with Hi-Rail “O”, I would keep it and operate it as “scale as possible”.
Atlas and Gargraves make realistic 3 rail track, and although somewhat awkward, all “O” Hi-rail (Not O-27) will reasonably fit with a semi-scale “O” layout.
Go to any major train show, and check out the display layouts. You will see some fantastic “Hi-rail” modular displays, with fantastic consists that look just as good as the HO and N Modular displays.
Every “scale” technique equally applies to “O” Hi-rail. The only thing that doesn’t fit is the third rail, so…
Have Fun and Enjoy.
Some of us use those titles because the title of the post wouldn’t fit, as in my case.
How can a semi-scale at best model be realistic?
Anyway I would make a nice display case for the Lionel items. I would choose a layout that would satisfy me in the space available. And then choose a scale based on that layout. Even though I didn’t want to I would start watching for sales and clearances aquiring new equipment for the new layout. that way I would still have the collection I love, but have a layout that is satisfying and cohesive looking.
I like most all the answerers. I have been tempted to say Please use descriptive titles many times but never had the nerve.
Look at the preview of the book Realistic Mideling for Toy Trains at the Link posted by cuyama
Many HO and N layouts don’t look as good.
I for one can spare the couple of minutes it takes me to open a “mystery thread” and scan the first post. No biggie. While I have a lot of other demands on my time, if I’m going to spend a few minutes on the boards (and can beat the kids away from the keyboard long enough to actually do it), I might as well take the time to actually see what’s out there.
Reallly, sitting on your backside reading forums is basically wasting time any how!..mike h.
Hi!
I know the situation well. My first recommendation is to post this question in the Classic Trains section of the Forum. They are more familiar (as a whole) than those of us in the MR section.
When I was debating building a replacement layout in 2008, I did consider making it a Lionel - but ended up with the HO again. I have no regrets, but I do enjoy running the Lionel.
From my point of view, there were a lot of postwar Lionel cars that were fairly close to realistic size - like the 64xx series boxcars, and others. Some of the locos, like the Hudsons, GPs, and so on were pretty good replicas as well.
As you know, the biggest problem some had with Lionel was that center power rail. Of course that allowed for simplified wiring, but paled when compared to Flyer track. Soooo, a lot of guys would blacken the sides of the center rail, or use the Super O track - which is now hard to come by.
Good Luck!
Riogrand, boy do I agree with you on this one.[Y]
sell them for as much as you can. Over time they will only go down in the money you can get.
Oh,buy N-Scale[;)]
Semi scale at best? Even models such as 6464 boxcars and 2343 F3s weren’t made to exact proportions. The only ones that I can think of that can be called truely scale models were the 700E and 700K hudsons.
This was also to see what a rivit counter would say, and if this was typed from the view point of a rivit counter, who just also happened to collect old Lionel items.
I run post war Lionel trains on a detailed, realistic layout, and it all seems to look good to me. Add the word “Subdivision” to the end of the layout’s name to make people REALLY impressed!
As long as the trains run reliably, even the worst looking models can be operated realistically. I’d suggest building a trackplan that focuses on operation and try to replicate prototypical operations. I recall an April’s Fools column where Tony Koester was going to sell his HO stuff and buy all 3-Rail equipment; tighter radii would allow more track/towns, live loads (coal or otherwise) are more practical, signaling, etc. to be easier to build in the larger scale. I am not a fan of 3-Rail, but I totally respect those that are…it’s all about the trains! I am a borderline rivet counter in HO and strive for the best modelling (but am not disappointed when I fall short).
If the trains run well, the scenery is convincing, and the ‘jobs’ aren’t boring, you will have a layout that will be respected…(even if it is 3-Rail.lol).
And when you use Lionel’s operating cars and accessories, the layout would be anything but boring…