What Would You Do? Return it or hang in there? M.B. Klein

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Just curious to see what others would do…

I’ve just purchased a new Bachmann Spectrum Russian Decapod. (Well, 3, actually for road switchers).

One of them has a very soft “thumping” sound. At lst it was annoying (and concerning) just because it was there. It’s quite soft but at high speed it reverberates through the plywood subroadbed (bare benchwork-no scenery yet). I think I could get used to it. The other two though are smooth and silent. The loco runs like a champ otherwise (see below):

I broke the loco in for about 20 minutes in ea. direction. It had a fairly typical for Spectrums, very stiff initial start and hesitant “go”.

I initially lubed the rods, etc. externally. I checked to be sure the factory gear grease (internal) was present and not dried out. I did see a few very small bits of black plastic in the grease as if the gear had had contact with the driver cover plate briefly, probably causing the initial jerky starts.

So… I’m trying to decide whether or not to send it back for an exchange, see if it “blows up” somehow and just send it to Bachmann for repair/replacement later or what.

I ran it for 2 1/2 hr.s straight last night. lst at full speed then at slowest possible for grades. It runs like a champ just thumps. I’ve read about thumping being a sign of a broken drive gear but that doesn’t seem to be the issue from peeking under the drivers retaining plate, but can’t be sure as I couldn’t see the worm gear.

I checked wheel gauges and the pilot truck wheels are securely in their clip. Visually nothing seems to be out of round although I haven’t taken a micrometer to the drivers or anything. No rods seem to be binding. The wheels and drivers come in contact with a glass surface. The tender also.

What would you do? Would you just see how it goes seeing as it seems to run fine or go through the hassle of contacting the store, packaging up and mailing?

I’m kinda thinking that wit

2

Send it back. I had the same problem years ago with a couple of steamers and in both cases the cause was a crack in one of the gears.

3

Grimek

I am installing a decoder in an old split frame Bachmann that is new out of the box. It was thumping around the track so I inspected the gears. There was a tiny piece of black plastic (gears are white) in the gear teeth oil, I took the plastic out and the loco runs fine.
Just a thought. [:-^]

Lee

4

More checking, lubing, running, etc.

Well, it’s getting more annoying. Hasn’t tolerances haven’t changed but I guess mine have! [:(]

I guess I’ll send it back… I have 30 days rather than the week I thought it was, for returns, but I don’t think this one is going to work itself out. My previous Decapod (from 2 yrs. ago) had the cupped gear problem which was very evident. Supposedly that issue was resolved by Bachmann in after '08. THAT loco ground softly and after a few hrs. of gentle run time seized up completely. The symptoms are different here but…

M.B. Klein’s site (modeltrainstuff.com) says there’s a 15% restocking fee but it’s not clear if that will apply to a defective product or not. D.C.C. products will be returned to the manufacturer. Does that include locos? I will call them on Monday being Easter today and all to get a return auth. # .

My preference would be for them to ship me a replacement while mine’s on it’s way back and credit the return when it gets there. Hopefully without a restocking fee. Anyone know from experience?

Thanks Lee for your black plastic flakes info. I wasn’t sure if I’d void the return policy or warrantee if I opened it up. If they ok it, I’ll give it a try.

Happy Easter by the way and thanks guys for your advice.

As soon as I have my 4 switchers I can run some beginning Ops scenarios and see how they pan out so want to get this resolved sooner than later so heading towards the return "it route.

5

More checking, lubing, running, etc.

Well, it’s getting more annoying. Hasn’t tolerances haven’t changed but I guess mine have! [:(]

I guess I’ll send it back… I have 30 days rather than the week I thought it was, for returns, but I don’t think this one is going to work itself out. My previous Decapod (from 2 yrs. ago) had the cupped gear problem which was very evident. Supposedly that issue was resolved by Bachmann in after '08. THAT loco ground softly and after a few hrs. of gentle run time seized up completely. The symptoms are different here but…

M.B. Klein’s site (modeltrainstuff.com) says there’s a 15% restocking fee but it’s not clear if that will apply to a defective product or not. D.C.C. products will be returned to the manufacturer. Does that include locos? I will call them on Monday being Easter today and all to get a return auth. # .

My preference would be for them to ship me a replacement while mine’s on it’s way back and credit the return when it gets there. Hopefully without a restocking fee. Anyone know from experience?

Thanks Lee for your black plastic flakes info. I wasn’t sure if I’d void the return policy or warrantee if I opened it up. If they ok it, I’ll give it a try.

Happy Easter by the way and thanks guys for your advice.

As soon as I have my 4 switchers I can run some beginning Ops scenarios and see how they pan out so want to get this resolved sooner than later so heading towards the return "it route.

6

I would send it back, but contact MBK first. They may not take it but refer you to Bachmann instead.

7

Thanks guys for the suggestions for what to look and listen for. By accident (I hate when it’s by accident)…

I found the problem! Just as I was giving it it’s last look over, one of the rod screws (I thought) had backed out but it turned out to be sheared or broken in half.

I had lightly retightened everything when I lst lubed and placed it on the track. It seemed to snug up but it was only the top half seating against the lower half. I know that I didn’t over tighten it and the ends were jagged so I think it was broken from the factory not sheared later.

Anyway, I had a spare Bachmann screw in my junk drawer so if this “repair” holds up I’ll put my packing tape away. THEN I’ll clean out those black plastic bits.

Thanks guys. I was pretty sure the sound was emitting from the driver/track area rather than the drive gears but it’s hard to isolate sometimes. The Russian Decapods are a bit grindy against the rails anyway. Maybe a mechanic’s stethoscope would be a good tool to have around.

I’ll call M.B. Klein tomorrow just to let them know there was a problem just in case it crops up again or the screw hole got oblong, etc. I’ll ask about the restocking charge in an instance like this so I’ll know for next time. I’ll be ordering more from them as I have in the past.

If this stays ok I’m kinda twitchy for trying a 2-10-2.

Appreciate your input as always.

Jim

8

Capt. Grimek

I admire your patience and willingness to try to work with the defective model, but I have to ask “WHY”? The other two locos ran well right out of the box so why should you accept otherwise from the third? There have been a considerable number of posts in the last few years about the quality (or frequent lack thereof) of the Chinese products. What message are you sending to the manufacturers if you are willing to clean up their messes for them? I accept that when I buy an inexpensive freight car that I will have to add weight, decent couplers and metal wheels, but the initial low price makes that acceptable. If you bought your locos second hand for peanuts then the same argument might apply, but right out of the box as new for what is supposed to be a quality product it just doesn’t work. If we don’t speak up then we give the manufacturers permission to do whatever they can get away with. However, it is your money - do as you see fit.

Dave

9
10

I bought a Athearn Genesis F9ABB set from MBK some years back and I found several painting defects on it including a sizable chip of paint missing off the roof, and a very ragged mask line on another unit. They were fine, I sent the set back and had them exchanged for another.

11

I bought a Athearn Genesis F9ABB set from MBK some years back and I found several painting defects on it including a sizable chip of paint missing off the roof, and a very ragged mask line on another unit. They were fine, I sent the set back and had them exchanged for another.

12

If you just purchased it as you say, then send it back to MB Klein for a replacement. Call them first and they will give you mailing instructions and a return number to put on the package. Ask them to pay or reimburse you for the shipping charges which they will do. MB Klein is great to deal with and you will have no problems. Mention that you bought 3 and only 1 misbehaves in the manner that you described.

Rich

13

I would send it back.

If the other two work flawlessly, there has to be a problem with the the third one.

Bachmann is supposed to be famous for their service department {I own several Bachmann DCC OnBoards and never had a problem} if you don’t get anywhere with the seller for a replacement. GO to Bachmann.com for info.

14

Capt

Does the offending loco have traction tires? If it was a bad gear it would make the clicking noise and jump when clicks. I would suspect a flat spot on a driver or a traction tire that is out of place or out of round making the thump noise. Can you hold the loco still and spin the drivers slowly and see if it is a driver? One of my BLI locos had a blob of plastic on one of the traction tires that thumped. That is when I started removing all the traction tire drivers and replacing them with metal drivers on all my steamers.

Pete

15

Dave, normally I would agree with you 110%. When my lst Russian came about 2 yrs. ago it had internal problems that could not be (at all) easily remedied. Cupped-eaten away gears after 4 hrs. running. I sent it in to Bachmann for an exchange.

This time I had started to pack it up after troubleshooting and lubing, etc. and that broken rod screw fell out. It became easily obvious what had been the problem and it WOULD have been sent back if I didn’t happen to have just one spare screw in my junk box.

I’ve repeatedly sent “the proper message” to several manufacturers (haven’t we all?) BLI, Bachmann, Genesis, EVERYONE! So have many others. As much as I’d like to reform their quality control issues, it obviously hasn’t and won’t happen. It’s hell just getting a Mikado right now. Vapor ware from BLI, everyone has had to change factories so who knows what the upcoming new quality will be from most manufacturers the lst year of production.

Does it piss me off? Sure! But if it’s a quick fix without any permanent damage, I’ll choose that path.

2 to 8 weeks without a locomotive I need for ops scenario running after all this track laying, is too long if a very junior locmotive shop mechanic like myself can fix it. This problem was hidden so only luck allowed it to fall out into the box as I turned it over. If it remained hidden and mysterious, back it would go for sure.

So…that said, I called and let them know there MIGHT be a remaining or reoccuring problem but after I ran it last night it sounded and ran like the others, ran fine in a 3 decapod lash up for a half hr. without a hitch. So, I’ll do one more check for any elongation or oblong-ing of the screw hole from the broken screw. If it still looks round I’ll take the chance. I’ve still got about 27 days allowed for a return.

I feel that I need to be able to troubleshoot and make small EASILY remedied repairs if I can because it’s getting me the nerve up to open steam locos-a fear b

16

Guys,I wonder which is the lesser of the two evils fixing it or going through the hassles of sending it back?

I had a Atlas N Scale GP9 that had one speed—dead slow at full throttle…I contacted Atlas and advised them and they sent a return authorization number.

Well,I had to take one more look and took the engine apart for a inspection and didn’t see anything wrong.I resemble the Geep and gave it one last test run…Surprise! It ran smooth and responded to each speed setting.

I still don’t know what was amiss but,I fixed it by reassembling the locomotive.

17

If it can be fixed I would rather do so. Eventually you’re going to have to fix something on it anyhow so the sooner you get it apart the sooner you learn about it.

18

Nah, send it back and save your experience getting moments from items that are out of warranty or beyond the returned item date. Besides, once you fiddle with it, MB Klein isn’t going to want to take it back.

Rich

19

A few thoughts:

Obviously we would all like everything we buy, model train or otherwise to be perfect and never need service - not likely no matter where it is made or by whom. The closest anything I ever owned, or had first hand experiance with to comment on, that was perfect, has been my fathers 1969 Checker Marathon, and the three Gravely tractors (two his, one mine) owned in the last 50 years. One company gone, the other moved on to different products.

Bachmann, while a little slow sometimes, has great policies about problem product - if you can’t or don’t want to fix it, send it back, they will make it good. And in a few of my cases, and in many I have heard from others, they will make it good even after you have tried and failed to fix the problem yourself.

It seems to me that minor problems, possibly caused by shipping, not quality control, would be better fixed by the owner if they are within his/her skills - what’s the big deal? Are we that spoiled?

No offense to the OP, and I purposely held off posting on this thread until some “results” were in, but it seems to me that a steam loco making a clicking sound sould be very carefully examined, while running and on the bench, to determine if all siderod and drive line screws are secure, all valve gear moving freely, all driver wipers (mainly a Bachmann feature) correctly positioned, etc - BEFORE letting it run great distances/times - possibly avoiding further damage from a minor problem.

If a loco is a total dud, right out of the box, does not runs, runs VERY poorly, I too would put it right back in te box and contact the seller, prefering to get a replacement as quickly as possible, BUT, in the case of Bachmann, many retailers will prefer you send it to Bachmann. The one problem there is if Bachmann is out of stock on that loco.

Personally, I have had good luck with Bachmann steam. Yes I have had a few duds, and they have replaced them. But then again I have a lot of Bachmann locos - 30 plus