So from what I gather, passenger rail projects have now been nixed in
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Ohio
and probably Iowa.
Whats the deal?
Don’t have the finances in place–don’t have the finances in place–simple as that.
Many countries that have these projects are also not so sure that these work as well either. Remember they also do pay a higher premium on their tax base as well—remember the wonderful VAT?Just like what we here in ON have to pay now—on top of all the wonderful eco fees and extra taxes on gas and et cetera—[|(]
So, what happens to the money already promised? Does it have to be spent somewhere? Who controls it? The exec branch? It was money that the state applied for, so I guess they can say “no”. I would suspect the exec branch will just go down their list of submitted projects and give it to the next best bunch of applications. I’d guess NY and VA are in for a windfall.
New York is already making noises to that effect.
Staying away from the political side of all this, here is what may happen to the moneys rejected by the various states:
Ruskin?
Was it he who called the Great Western’s broad gauge and red car incursion into England’s West Country “close clinging damnation”?
I lived in Reading PA as a child and enjoyed being able to walk 2 blocks and then hike and camp on Neversink Mountain, our playground…Drives with my family were fun too, because the countryside was 5 to 20 minutes away. When I visit there now, it’s become a blurbia of Philadelphia,. In my adult life, I’ve been living in Washington DC for 45 years, less 3 for the military. Same thing here with some additional mileage but more cultural stuff.
I might get buried in Reading and should write a will stipulating Charles Evans cemetery near the Reading’s engineering masters (Wooten et al) and overlooking the Shops.
Anyway, with the exceptions of my beloved Pinto and Mitsubishi Dodge Colt wagons in the 70’s and 80’s I live car free day to day. I BMW (bus-metro-walk) or ride Amtrak or the intercity bus of the month, and rent a car when needed. No payments, gas, insurance, tax, parking fees, tickets.
Besides the Intersates’ becoming a “tunnel of trucks and terror” , "where are we heading?
I’m for rail, not for today’s immediate needs but for the fast approaching future.
Rixflix.
The country and the states are broke. I know from the perspective of a railfan it may seem cruel to kill these high speed rail projects, but from a broader perspective these projects just are not essential to the functioning of the country. Perhaps when the economy improves and we have our debt under control they can revisit these projects. But for now lets just focus on those services that we truly need and get through this mess.
But we are being told that these HSR projects are precisely the way to fix our ailing economy. They will make us more competitive by catching up with the rest of the world. They will provide businesses with a supply of workers by providing transportation for those workers. HSR will create jobs and the spending will ripple through the economy, ushering in a wave of new prosperity.
But isn’t this the way of all Single System Theorists?
This will be the Magic Bullet which will thrust America into the fore front of technology and will regain our economic might. Et cetera PP so on and so forth—[swg]
So we’ll have a way to transport workers quickly. Now only if we had somewhere to transport them to…
(cart before the horse…?)
Seems to be a couple tons of already-existing road and rail infrastructure that needs rehabilitated. But then we wouldn’t have shiny new trains and photo-ops for the good ol’ re-election commercials…
Maybe if the tens of thousands of people who the politicians say are going to ride these trains would sign on the dotted line, on a petition or contract or something, the rest of us might see an actual factual need. Then we could use that list to divvy up the costs to those who will use it, and perhaps get the down payment. I suspect we could fit the needs in Wisconsin with a couple school busses outfitted with high-rail gear and a 1 chime horn.[;)]
If the election results don’t give a resounding answer what the country wants, maybe we need to wait 2 more years for more.
Eh, it’s just another example of Politicians promising big things and then attacking little things.
I’m not entirely sure each of these specific projects were great projects anyway. Though, it’s much easier to say they aren’t needed when they aren’t built.
I read the Portland area WES every day. People who don’t ride it hate it, because it costs too much, but I wouldn’t be able to afford the commute I have if it didn’t exist. I’d have to live closer to Wilsonville which would negatively impact my ability to get to and enjoy tons of other things Portland has to offer from shopping and dining, to recreation both urban and forest.
So I’m always sympathetic to these types of projects and have little use for (s)urbanites who oppose them.
From what I’ve been reading, we are embarking on a great experiment. The funding for the projects being rejected will likely go those states embracing their projects. In a few years we’ll be able to see who was right.
When the world is changing and we are near or past peak oil; we need to change how we address transportation and rail has some beneficial energy and environmental qualities. We can’t stay mired with the old road solutions just because the new will take some of the money from the old ways. We need to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps.
Wisconsin and Ohio had rather modest plans to start and build incrementally which is reasonable. What is unreasonable is to turn around and criticize the lack of a more significant payoff initially.
The idea of taking a part of something and comparing it to a global impact rather than a different park isn’t the fairest comparison. Instead of comparing corridor ridership to all mode
Discuss politics if need be, fellas, but please refrain from becoming political. Thanks.
Tom
It seems that if the Governeors elect of both Wisconsin and Ohio don’t want the rail money then others do.
I notice a ‘Trains’ Magazine hedline today saying that both New York and Illinois Governors would welcome it.
What are you talking about? We have an interesting discussion going, and you have to butt in and flex your “authority”. Spare us your need to up your post count, and let us have a discussion. This subject is completely political in nature, and is of great relevance to railroading.
If you are kowtowing to some whiny foamer who doesn’t like the reality of the effect political decisions have on his railroad, then too bad for them. They can go and post about which choo-choo is prettier.
Plus the NY political contingent has gone a step farther as Sen.Gillabrand has also asked the Federal Government for the money NJ Governor Chirstie has thrown away by cancelling the ARC Tunnel project. Gillabrand wants the money for the LIRR’s East Side Access (to GCT) project. This in turn sets up a political, business, and social contest of access to available jobs: the LI population will have access to them while NJ residents will be stuck in the pot holes of the Turnpike, the Parkway, and Route 3 not able to get to NYC and the jobs!
As I pointed out before - “LI” will not be so much of an “Island” any more, as the NY politicians work to erase the water barrier; but NJ will become more of one.
And I believe it was George W. Hilton in an article in Trains in the late 1960’s /early 1970’s who remarked that there wasn’t much point to a railroad that ran only to New Jersey (since the rail and highway tunnels had replaced the ferries).*
So the jobs and real estate values will increase in Long Island, and decrease in New Jersey.
Perhaps NJT and Amtrak can salvage the project - it will take a long time to finish, so there are lots of opportunities to find more funding for
In the 40’s and through the 50’s NJ taxed railroads at higher rates than any industury person. On top of that they confiscated rights of way easements across railroad properties, built the Turnpike and other roads, then charged the railroads higher taxes for the improvements. The NJ Association of Railroads, memebers of which were the presidents of each railroad that served or operated in NJ, was formed as a public relations tool to explain this predicament. Meanwhile, tracks were ripped up, branches abandoned, repair shops, etc., moved out of state, and commuter services commuted. And more highways were built. This forced the state DOT to form NJT as we know it today. They overplayed their hand and ended up with the operations and outfitting of all commuter services of all the railroads in the state. Not that that would not have happened anyway.