Hi all,
I’m in the process of re-doing a West Side HOn3 T-12, and I’m having some problems with the rear axle. I have glued the wheels, on both sides, in place with loctite about 6 or 7 times by now, but they still continue to go out of quarter within 30 seconds to a minute of test-running. I’m considering removing the loctite completely and trying to solder the wheels in position, across the axle ends, as this is beginning to drive me nuts.
Would this be the best course of action, or can someone suggest a much more reliable way to keep the wheels in quarter?
Thanks in advance,
tbdanny
Is there any oil residue left? What kind of Loctite do you use?
I clean all parts in detergent and then dip them in alcohol to get rid of the water. Then I use Green Loctite to set the wheels on the axles. It is sometimes necessary to “stress” the axles a bit to get a good fit. You do that by rolling the axle under a file.
I did that on my loco and it has held toghether for almost 3 years now…
tbdanny,
Do you have a drill press available? If you do, there’s an absolutely positive method you can use. Set the wheels on the axles in as perfect quarter as you can get them, the drill a small hole parallel to the axle right at the seam where the axle fits into the wheel. Drill it about as deep as the wheel is wide and make it the size of a short piece of music wire, say .020". The music wire goes into the hole and serves as a key. This is a very old way real machinery was secured in position in the field where a pre-cut keyway might not be feasible or in the right place to compensate for wear or breakage. The old-timers call this type of a key a “Dutchman”. (finger in the hole, like the little Dutch boy and the dam’.) A drop of white glue will keep the key from drifting out if it’s a tiny bit loose but water will soften it for removal if need be.
Just make dern sure them wheels are in the right quarter, ‘cause there ain’t no goin’ back mate.
Lou
I’d be concerned about using Loctite on those axles, as it won’t do much for the loco’s current pick-up capabilities. [swg] Graffen’s suggestion about “stressing” the axle ends (NWSL calls it “upsetting”) is a good one and it does work. I’ve found it easiest to accomplish by rolling the axle between two files: one on the work surface, with the second one used to impart the rolling action while applying moderate pressure.
The suggestion for “keying” the drivers is a good one, although it may prove difficult to keep the drill tracking properly - while the axles are steel, the driver centres are usually brass or softer cast metal.
Wayne
The first thing I would check is why the wheels will not stay quartered. Are the side rods exactly the same length? Do the holes in the side rods line up perfectly? Is there any binding in the mechanism? I have used the red Loctite in the past with good results. Always allow some set up time after pressing the wheels together. One wheel must be insulated from the other or else you will short out the system unless you run 3 rail.
Pete
Hi all,
Thanks for the advice. I’m using the blue loctite, which the bottle says is ‘cyanoacrynalate based’, so I’m not sure if it’s as brittle as the regular CA or not.
The exact situation is that the non-isolated wheels will stay in place without any assistance, but the isolated wheels will rotate freely around the axle, without actually coming off the end of it. I will try ‘upsetting’ the axles on the isolated side. Failing that, my train club does have a drill press available for the club members to use, so ‘keying’ the isolated wheels and adjusting the non-isolated ones would be my worst-case scenario.
I suspect that the insulated wheels have a Delrin bushing to insulate them from the metal axle. If the glue doesn’t work and you’re not keen on trying to drill for a Dutchman style key another way would be to make a different insulator bushing from something like fiber reinforced phenolic resin. You’d need a lathe of course, but phenolic has “tooth” or a rougness to its surface that would help grip the shaft. Pardon my techincal solutions, but I’m a machinist and so think like one. I usually don’t mess around with poorly designed or built stuff, I just fix it like it should have been. You might be able to make a bushing with the drill press and a file if you’re handy.
Lou
I believe weside uses an insulator between the nickle silver plated brass rim and the diecast Zamac center section, so soldering wont work. Its possible that the cast metal center is hollowed out enough that it wont press on tighty enough, even if the side rods are ok, if the wheels wont stay tight on the axle, they will not stay in quarter. Upsetting, or kind of a home made knurling on the end of the axle shaft will give the axle some “bite” to retain the wheels postion when its pressed on. I going to assume your using either a NWSL quarting jig or something to verify that you are getting the wheel in the proper position prior to pressing it on the axle. Those little westside’s are excellent runners when in tune. Mike
Mike,
You’ve got it in one. The insulator is between the wheel rim and the wheel centre. I didn’t realise they were made of Zamac - I’ve heard that this stuff can deteriorate over the years, which would explain the looseness. I’ll have to try the ‘upsetting’ idea - or maybe a thin layer of solder on the axle end might do the trick.
Again, thanks all for the help.
Cheers,
tbdanny
Just one other question - are there any know issues using pure acetone to clean zamac - i.e. will it cause the material to deteriorate furhter, etc?
Acetone is meant to remove organic matter. It will have no effect on metallurgy.
Crandell
Hi all,
Just a quick line to let you know I’ve (finally) got the issue sorted. The approach I took was to use a hobby knife to cut into the axle where I wanted the wheel to stay. I had noticed when working on circuit boards that this had a tendency to push up small tabs of metal on either side of the cut.
Sure enough, a series of small cuts around the axle provided enough of a grip for the wheel to stay in place.
Thanks again for all the advice, I really appreciate it.
Cheers,
tbdanny