I don’t see any difference in blackened vs non-blackened in terms of crud buildup. Besides, if you run your trains often enough, the blackened wheels will become polished, just like the prototype.
I prefer metal, no matter what scale. I think they look better and I like the sound of metal wheels on metal track. Sure they’re a little noisy, just like a train, but my hearing isn’t what it used to be so it’s okay.
Enjoy
Paul
I replace the plastic with metal but a car that comes metal will not be changed the stock wheels are fine.
Joe,I agree…I like the new Athearn trucks since the ones on their RTR cars are extremely free rolling.I also like the Atlas trucks.
But,these trucks isn’t in my change over budget since I would need 53 pairs and I want a complete change over before April’s train show open house.
Metal are best for us.
I like Intermountain, Jaybee and Northwest Shortline. I have found the plastic axle, metal wheels to not be reliable in being centerline true and can wobble due to axle warp. I have seen Athearn metal wheels not be true by a lot. One item I like to check too is the profile, to make sure it has taper. The better the profile, the less you have problems with derails. Jaybee doesn’t have as much taper profile as Intermountain and NWSL. NWSL will make wheels for you on a custom basis which is nice. Some models have 33 or 36 when they should have something else. Jaybee is heavier and sometimes that can help.
I do like the sound better too. I don’t understand someone who wants a whisper quiet train room. Unless it’s a stealth train of course-LOL.
Richard
hopefully I will have all metal wheels when I get around to ordering them, I just prefer the clicking of metal wheels over the rail joints. they also sound great in videos, here’s my Kato morning Daylight which has all metal wheels. I love that clicking!
I continue to be amused by the number of modellers who think that metal-wheeled trucks roll better than those with plastic wheels. While some certainly do roll better, it has nothing to do with the wheels: two otherwise identical cars, one with plastic wheels and one with metal, will roll identically well (or poorly), because the rolling qualities are determined by the interface between the axle ends and the sideframes in which they rotate.
The noise made by metal wheels doesn’t sound to me much like that made by the real ones, although it’s disproportionately louder than the prototype (and probably accounts for the volume used for sound-equipped locos on many layouts).
The “better appearance” angle is argueable, too: The shiny metal of the wheeltread is certainly more realistic than the black or rust-coloured of that on a plastic wheel, but it also emphasises the overly-wide tread and deep wheel flange. A regular HO scale wheel is a scale 9.625" wide, and even the semi-scale version measures 7.66" in width, while a prototype wheel is only 5.5". Even if one were to opt for Proto:87 scale-width wheels, it would, in the existing sideframes, point out the exaggerated width of the trucks we’re using.
I must admit that the results of this informal survey have convinced me of the benefits of metal wheels, if only I had invested in the companies making them. [swg][(-D]
Wayne
Of course this is true. Why would anyone post any info like that if it was not true.
You want good wheels, get the machined metal wheels, not the sintered metal wheels like Kadee sells.
Those are still porous like plastic and can absorb dirt. Those wheels are powered metal compressed under a lot of pressure to make a supposed solid metal wheel.
The solid come in different lengths from a couple online companies.
Get yourself a digital caliper from Micro Mark if you are serious about this. Also. Get a truck tuner. That device will be the best thing to get a nice rolling truck.
Rich
Maybe you’re just easily amused Wayne! [swg]
Back when I still had some cars with plastic wheels, I noticed they had a greater tendency to collect dirt (which affected their ability to roll and track precisely), and many - if not most- tended to wobble slightly even when new (which also may affect how much dirt they collect). You are quite correct that metal wheels don’t necessarily ROLL better, as that’s more a function of the axle/truck interface, but judging from all the layout’s I’ve operated (including my own) I’d still say they deliver superior operation. When hosting monthly operating sessions with 400 or so cars as I do, anything that improves operational reliability is welcome. We’ve had zero derailments per session more than once on my layout (maybe that would have happened with plastc wheels too, but changing out wheels on layouts where I run often has resulted in far fewer derailments from things like crud accumulation on the treads). As always, your mileage may vary.
Yeah, you’re probably right, Rob. [(-D]
There’s no denying that many plastic wheels are poorly-made and poor performers and that, for the most part, the metal wheels currently available seem to be of good quality. I certainly don’t have any issue with modellers choosing what they feel is best, but I do sense that many make their choices with relatively little first-hand evaluation: everybody’s using metal wheels, so I’d better do so, too. Of course, when I started in this hobby, pretty-well everything came with metal wheels. When Athearn first introduced their plastic wheels, it was a dramatic improvement over most of what was available at that time.
My personal experience with plastic and metal wheels shows pros and cons to both, and I generally leave them as they come unless there’s an issue which can only be resolved by replacing them. I do have a pretty good supply of plastic replacements, courtesy of friends who’ve gone to metal ones. [:-^] On my layout, neither type seem to have any effect on track cleanliness.
Wayne
Yeah - there’s a lot of that going around, and with more than just wheels. Having a decided preference, based on years of experience, isn’t the same as having the BEST answer for everybody. That nuance is lost on many.
I’m not to sure about that since I’ve used the tool to teak the trucks and seen a mass difference in roll ability…
Some of my BB cars still equipped with plastic wheels won’t roll down a 2% grade due to the crud on the wheels while my RTR cars and BB cars equipped with metal wheels is still free rolling.
Wayne,I wouldn’t invest in metal wheels if I thought for a second it doesn’t matter but,metal wheels does make a mass improvement and needs less cleaning then plastic wheels.
I will say I never found a smoother rolling trucks then Athearn’s BB trucks and would use nothing else for years…
I have replaced many free-rolling plastic wheelsets with free-rolling metal wheelsets and have concluded that there isn’t much real difference, and that there are better places to spend one’s hobby dollars.
IF your cars roll freely now with their plastic wheelsets, you won’t notice much a difference in performance, other than the noise, if you replaced them with metal wheelsets, IMO.
I find that most of the source of crud build up on the wheels is due to dirty track, not the composition of the wheel; like solder flux, weathering, locomotive lube, or general dirt in the layout room. I have noticed no appreciable lack-of-crud-pickup with metal wheels compared to plastic. If the metal wheels are clean, its because the track is clean.
You should take whatever money you will spend on switching from plastic to metal and use it instead to replace all factory installed couplers with Kadee’s. That’s money better spent.
What? The fact that I have far less crud on my wheels means nothing; or, the fact that that crud that always built up on my plastic wheels isn’t getting spread around the track on my layout, also means nothing?
Where did you two pick-up with your far better esoteric knowledge?
My reason for using metal wheels was I saw how much better looking my first Proto 2000 kit’s wheels looked. I thought, I like that, I’m going to put those wheels on all of my cars! The fact that they don’t pick-up crud was noticed when I no longer needed to clean wheels anymore. But, yep, I read about it on the internet and just follow blindly!
My sense is that plastic wheels not only pick up crud, they generate crud.
Rich
just out of curiosity is this “crud” dirt and other things that get on the rail or is is the black stuff that’s on the rails?
if it’s black stuff, that’s caused by bolts of arcing electricity between the track and the locomotives wheels.
Nobody said your experience wasn’t meaningful nor an accurate reflection of what you’ve seen. There are observations both ways. I observed that crud build-up was less with metal wheels on my layout. Wayne hasn’t. Neither is right or wrong, nor a reflection on anything you said.
Dude… again nothing was addressed in your direction whatsoever, at least not from me. You can’t deny there are plenty of people who don’t make decisions based on experience, and just follow the herd. See, based on what you had said earlier, I wasn’t including you, and I doubt Wayne did either.
I have to say, if it is caused by bolts of arcing electricity, I have never seen it and I assume that you could see arcing electricity. I used to see that all the time as a kid on my American Flyer layout. So, I doubt that is the cause of the crud.
If I rub a white cloth on the rails, there is some black smear on the cloth. Whether this is the source of the black crud, I do not know.
What I do know is that when I first got into HO scale back in 2004, many of my then newly acquired pieces of rolling stock had black plastic wheels. I would constantly see black crud in the form of smudges on the rails. Very quickly, I was having problems with the performance of my locomotives. I quickly discovered a build up of this crud on the metal wheels of the locomotives. I took a flat blade hobby screwdriver and used it to peel the crud off the wheels. It was like the wheels had gum wrapped around them.
I eventually converted all of the rolling stock to metal wheels and never had the problem again. My locomotives have been crud-free for 8 + years now. And I rarely have to clean my track.
Rich
I’m no chemist or electrician, but this claim seems plausible from my experience.
On my layout, the black crud is not caused by plastic wheels, since I have not used them in over a year.
The black crud that accumulates on my metal wheels must come from other sources.
It was from N scale magazine, one of the issues last year they started an article on track cleaning cars.
My rails don’t have that “crud” on them I usually run both metal and plastic unless I’m running my Kato Passenger sets or my Con Cor BN passenger/exec. trains.