When are you building/handlaying your turnouts?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hi everyone,

I have a question. This is something I have seen popping up now and then and there is a discussion in the layout part of the forum going on right now.

My question is, when can you say that you are building or hand laying your own turnouts?

I’ve read people saying that for example building turnouts with the help of the Fast Track tools and fixtures is not building your own turnout? Your just assembling a premade kit. So where do you stand? Is it OK to say that you built it your self or did you just do the assembly? Where do guys draw the line? How much work do you have to do for it to qualify?

I’m just curious to see what you guys says. I don’t really care if people tell me that I did not build my fast track turnouts since my own perception is that I did. But it would be nice to know if their is a generally accepted line that is drawn which decide what is what. For me, I can just as well say that I’ve assembled a kit.

Magnus

2

I believe using Fast Track jigs certainly do qualify as building one’s own turnouts.

The jig is only a tool, not a magic wand.

I find the jig handy for placement of the rail, as opposed to using several track gauges, as in the past. I use only the jigs, therefore, rail cutting, filing, soldering, fitting, etc., is still required. Point and frog building is an art unto itself. There are no shortcuts for experience. Perfection comes only from practice and patience.

[2c]

3

Of course it is making your own, just as using a jig for bents to make your own wooden trestle is making your own. The jig is immaterial…whether purchased or made for onesself if not the point. Additionally, if it were to be classed as a kit, all the rail stock and ties would be ready for use. That is not the case. I would even venture to say that, just as Bowser will sell you erected drivetrains for their steamers, if Fast Tracks were to include frogs pre-assembled, that would also make it a kit. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If one were to nitpick like that, then any type of commercial product used in handlaying any type of trackage, main lines or turnouts, would be a kit since no one makes their own rails…that I know.

[#dots]

4

I’ve been thinking the same as you guys. You start with the same stuff you only use an additional tool(the jig) to make it better and easier.

The arguments you bring up Crandell about not building the track is something I’ve been thinking as well. Everyone uses a toll even if it is a track gauge or something to hold the rails in place.

The reason I’m asking this is that I have seen some people complaining about people “building” their own turnouts.

Good that I’m not alone.

Magnus

5

The commonly available turnout “kits” come with components (frogs, points, etc) pre-fabricated, ready for you to attach to ties. They may even be pre-gauged with some PC board strips to use as ties or to hold the turnout in gauge. These to me are kits.

Commercial ready-to-lay turnouts are the equivalent of RTR.

If you buy the components separately from several sources, or construct them from raw rail - to me, that is the equivalent of scratchbuilding, and tehcnically qualifies as handlaid. Just as in scratchbuilding, there are differences of opinion as to how many parts can be bought pre-made and still qualify as scratchbuilt, so there will be differences in opinion of whether buying cast frogs and pre-made points qualifies as handlaid.

Frankly, the titles don’t matter much to me. The results are why we choose non-commercial turnouts in the 1st place. The Fast Tracks jigs provide a great way to introduce folks to handlaid track that performs well, and can be constructed fairly quickly. With the hand-holding of the directions and the jigs, it’s not nearly as scary to attempt your first handlaid turnout as it was for me with rail, ties, spikes, and gauges, and only a copy of a Model Railroader article to guide me. After you’ve built a few turnouts with the jigs, you will be fully capable of building custom turnout sizes without the jigs, should you choose to do so.

And there are those who prefer not to hand lay track or turnouts. I don’t understand them, but many of them achieve results on other parts of their layouts that is way beyond my ability. Model railroading is still a personal hobby.

Fred W

6

I couldn’t have said it better, Fred. In fact, I have said those very words a couple dozen times over the past three years and a bit. “Intensely personal” is how I put it if I recall. We enjoy it as and how we can.

-Crandell

7

I use raw rails and raw ties.

What your saying about Fast tracks jigs helping people to evolve is true.

Yesterday evening I took a piece of scrap rail and I used it to make two frogs with my belt sander without the use of the point form tool as an experiment. I tried them out in the point form tool and tested them in the jig but the frogs where quite nice just after the belt sander. This makes me think that in the not to distant future, I will try to build a turnout without the jig as a #10 turnout. Basically, the jig and the five turnouts I’ve built so far have learnt me a lot in a short time. Things I would never have tried on my own. I hope to be able to build curved turnouts without a jig in the future.

Magnus

8

I have yet to see a Fast Tracks jig. I no longer “build” my own switches, but Fast Tracks sound like something I would have wanted in the early 80’s when I was working on my MMR requirements and had to “hand lay” track. Then I took a length of code 100 rail, cut and bent it into shape, soldered it, filed it, cussed it until I had the angle. then came more cutting, filing, soldering and cussing until the points were made and then laying out the outline of the switch on the roadbed, laid phenolic? board ties that I would then solder rail to, then lay the pieces over the wood ties already laid down and cut to length, spike the whole mess down and start gauging, testing, filing, gauging, filing test…you get the idea.

I still have a few of those switches in service on the older part of the layout, along with about 75 ft of handlaid track, still in service. I still get a bit of a rush watching a train work over that track without derailing. You should have seen the spike heads we used then.

Today, I would use the Fast Tracks jigs, or forget the whole thing and buy commercial switches.

Bob

9

Just as it is possible to buy a kit for a brass steam loco (with about a gazillion parts to solder together) assembly of which is only millimetrically removed from scratchbuilding, it is possible to get a ‘kit’ for a hand-laid turnout (all pre-cut ties, points, frog rails, wing rails and guard rails already formed, just not assembled.) Neither is in the same league with the shake-the-box things the word ‘kit’ usually brings to mind.

OTOH, as soon as you have to take file (or belt sander) to rail, you step across the line into ‘pure’ hand-laying, even if you assemble the parts upside-down in a jig.

I, personally, build all of my specialwork in place - frequently by peeling ties off one end of the piece of flex that is being laid into the footprint of the switch (one or both flex track rails become stock rails, which I don’t notch.) The biggest advantage is the elimination of rail joints, especially close to the points. There is one place in my first-built staging yard throat where a single three foot length of straight rail is stock rail to four sets of points.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

10

Hi Magnus,

To say using Fast tracks is a kit is like saying a couple of rolls of wire is your MR electrical circuit, after all, you only have cut it to length, strip the ends, solder your feeders to the track and the bus, make sure the polarity is correct and hook it up to power and it’s done !

Just because Fast Tracks uses a jig, doesn’t mean it’s not hand made, it just means someone came up with a tool to make handlaying your turnouts / crossovers, etc a lot easier and quicker ! Apart from the ties, nothing else is ready just to belt together and be on the track in 30 minutes or so.

I wonder if the same people who reckon it’s a kit because of the jig, use a standards gauge ? After all a gauge is just a jig / tool to make checking a large number of things quicker than getting out the tape rule / micrometer and individually measuring each one !!!

Do they cut / form each tie or buy them like the rest of us “kit builders” ?

Do they extrude their own rail ?

Do they forge their own spikes ?

Do they fabricate their own tie plates ?

My bet is they “can’t see the forest for the trees” [X-)]

My [2c]

Cheers,

Warren

11

Warren, as many other times in the recent past I find my self not only agreeing with you but can honestly say that the arguments that you bring up is the exact ones that i ahev been thinking about.

Magnus

12

Hey Magnus,

I’ve put some more thought into this.

I’ve got some scrap plastic, some steel flat bar, lead roof flashing, a motor and some wire and a spare decoder.

I might list it on ebay as a " New Big Boy Kit " ( some minor fabrication required ! ) [(-D]

Cheers,

Warren

13

[(-D] [(-D] [(-D]

[(-D] [(-D] [(-D]

Thats a great idea!

I can get some iron ore from the mines at Kiruna and they can melt it them self. Saves you the trouble of sending any metal.

Magnus

14

[(-D][(-D][(-D]ROFLMAO!!![(-D][(-D][(-D]

Now you’ve got me thinking! Pull out the wire, toss in some sponge copper from the concentrator at Abo…

“Some refining required.”

FWIW, I cut my switch ties from sheet balsa…

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

15

Hey Chuck,

If you don’t grow and mill your own Balsa it doesn’t count !!! [(-D]

This is the Best laugh I’ve had for a week !!!

Cheers,

Warren

16

Did you build the shovel that you used to plant the tree?

Magnus

[quote user=“Big Ugly Waz”]

Hey Chuck,

If you don’t grow and mill your own Balsa it doesn’t count !!! [(-D]

This is the Best laugh I’ve had for a week !!!

Cheers,

17

Magnus & Chuck,

I’m going to edit my " ebay listing " for the " Big Boy Kit " Give me an honest opinion, is it too over the top or sound just right for ebay ?

BNIB, Super RARE Big Boy Kit ( some minor fabrication & assembly required ) Low opening Bid of $0.99 or Buy it Now for $2950.00 ( FREE SHIPPING !!! )

Forget Brass, this is so rare it’s one of a kind !!!

This kit is not for the feint hearted, it’s definitely a Craftsman model, but with patience this will be the finest model representation of the Union Pacific Big Boy steam locomotive in existance !

This kit comes supplied with everything you need to build this Handsome Brute with the added bonus of being able to construct it in ANY scale ! ( please email me with your preference for z,n,ho,oo,o & g - for any larger scale you will be required to source some parts )

Kit contents:

Plastic sheet for Boiler, cab & tender bodies

Steel bar for Loco & tender chassis, trucks, wheels, driveline, etc

Lead sheet for Loco & tender weights

Wire & motor - Red & Black wire supplied plus motor of your choice ( please specify )

MRC Sheer Brilliance Sound decoder - That’s right, your finished model will be equipped with prototypical sound from the hobbies leading manufacturer !!!

This offer IS too GOOD to be true, be the only one in the WORLD to own this premier model !

Please note if you plan to build larger than g scale, due to shipping costs the steel bar, lead sheet and motor WILL be OMITTED from the kit ( Price will drop accordingly, please email me prior to using the Buy it Now option )

HURRY, this kit will not last long at this price !

I soo wish I had a camera here so I could add a pic to this !

Cheers,

Warren

18

If you don’t buy a commercial turnout and use rail pieces to construct your turnout its handlaid, whether you fast track or jig your own style or mush around like I have without all that fancy help.

Where and how I decide what gets handlaid depends on the modeling circumstance for me.

I handlaid totally my old layout because of cost restrictions, turnouts are still high in price anyways and walthers has gone all plastic frog now, I want all rail, and others are following suit with fewer all rail frogs. Guess I make my own…period.

But I’ll use the switch kits to get the tie detail like the Central Valley kits.

19

Warren,

I laughed my self silly over your post! [bow] [(-D]

You will have to make a picture of this and actually place it on e-bay. Without the sound decoder perhaps, some one might be dumb enough to want one! [:)]

Just through in a bucket of sand so they can make their own molds or something.

I must say it’s fun how this topic turned out? Laughs instead of arguments, that is the way it should be! Strange that none of the people who do complain about this haven’t seem to have read it?

Magnus

20

Hi Magnus,

I know your not supposed to laugh at your own jokes, but I’ve got to admit I LMAO over the the thread to ! I thought Chuck may have added a bit more to it, but maybe he’s out planting or milling timber for his ties !!! Or of course he could be turning up a handle for that shovel you mentioned !!! [(-D]

If I get time over the weekend I’ll get a pic of the “kit” and post it. Could be a bit difficult though, my missus and 3 kids are all sick with the flu ( touch wood, I’m not …yet ) and between work that I’ve got to get done at home and tending to them, I’m a bit pressed for time when I’m home. It seems the most “spare” time I have is when I’m at work !

I too was surprised nobody else chimed in on this, after all, doesn’t everyone enjoy a good laugh ? It’s certainly a nice change from some of the threads in the last month or so.

Cheers,

Warren

PS : Check your PMs Magnus, I’ve got a question for you.