Thanks.
But to restate the second part of my question:
Does anyone know if N&W operated any of their own steam power on former Virginian lines after the merger?
I know that’s a pretty obscure topic but I would like to know…
I am waiting for someone like BigJim (or Dave Stephenson) who would know a definitive answer.
But I find it almost incredibly unlikely. By the date of the merger, Virginian was very effectively dieselized, and electric operations continued without replacement (contrary to the N&W experience at elkhorn Tunnel, where the older electrification was supplanted by steam). There would have been little or none of the specialized infrastructure like lubritoria that made systematic steam operations so efficient onN&W proper, whereas it could be expected that Virginian had its customary efficiency in place for FM diesel service, at least.
Although it might be possible that N&W ran some post-merger clearance tests with steam, it was my understanding that by 1959 any use or extension of steam was officially ‘dead’ as a matter of policy - so what would be the point?
Did the Virginian even have the infrastructure left to support steam? I suspect the answer is yes, but active steam had been dead for a while and besides some remnants, was off the property by merger day.
It wouldn’t of been terribly unusual for that answer to be no. It often decided, such as on the Pennsy, which divisions got steam during the few years where significant numbers of steam were kept as reserve power.
A previously dieselized division of that road (The Conemaugh Division) was basically converted back to steam in one famous instance and the diesels reassigned during a severe power shortage.
That happened precisely because the necessary servicing facilities were still present on that route after a year or more of no steam. And even then, they had to erect a new 35,000 gallon water tank in one location and run canteen cars on another route due to a demolished water facilitiy. Often, a practical return to steam was impossible in short order after dieselization.
Trains even coined a new term that year, “de-dieselization”.
It seems the N&W-VGN merger was eff 1 Dec 1959-- so no N&W locomotives of any kind on VGN until then?
Hard to believe on 2 Dec 1959 N&W management would say “Let’s send a Y6b over to Mullens and see if they have any use for it.”
I don’t have a definitive answer to the queston, but I don’t recall any discussion at teh N&W archives relating to N&W power operating on the VGN post merger.
DRS (aka feltonhill)
When did Norfolk and Western go all diesel?
Too damn soon!
Grrrrrrr…
I doubt it. Well-run mergers tend to leave actual operations alone for months as equipment is renumbered and worked into the agreed-upon number system.
Certainly true NorthWest, when we moved to Richmond, VA in 1987 there were still quite a few locomotives operated by CSX that still had their Seaboard Coast Lines, Family Lines, L&N, and Chessie System markings. And on occasion you’d see one with C&O markings, but not so often as the others.
It seemed like CSX wasn’t in any great rush to repaint back then.
Not only weren’t they in a hurry to repaint, they weren’t in a hurry to merge the operations. CSX was formed Nov. 1, 1980. Outside of a few ‘coordintion projects’, Chessie & Seaboard operated as separate organizations until approximately 1986 when the decision was made on whose computer system was going to be the one that ran the combined organization. Once that decision was made and the equipment installation and training effort undertaken to train field personnel on on the ‘losing’ property, the merging of individual departments was undertaken based on the plans that hae been formulated during the 5+ years the organizations operated separately.
Mergers of large organization is not something to be done without a lot of attention to the small details.
CSX was smart to take its time in completing the merger. Aside from the UP/SP debacle, there have been any number of airline mergers that were rushed to completion with corresponding operational problems, United+Continental being the most recent example.
I thought the N&W bought up a group of nearly new C&O 0-8-0s which eliminated the need to build further copiies of the N&W 0-8-0
N&W bought 30 almost brand new Baldwin 0-8-0 switchers from C&O in 1948. The N&W was so satisfied with these engines, basically built to USRA specs,that the railroad but 45 near copies in it’s Roanoke shops between 1951-1953.
The final engine of that order was the last new steam locomotive built for Class 1 service in the United States, a few years after the Big 3 locomotive builders had stopped building steam for the domestic market.
That shows how committed Norfolk & Western was to steam power into the 50’s but very soon afterwards the road reversed course and started to buy Alco and Emd diesels…
It wasn’t in 1948 actually. That’s the year that they were built by Baldwin.
The sale to N&W after C&O changed their motive power course was 1950.