When would a train need a pilot to run over a railroads territory?
Caldreamer
When you are running on a road that you are not qualified to run on–that is, when you are not familiar with the territory so that yout anticipate changes in the gradient, curves, know where to reduce your speed amd where you may increase your speed; the conductor also has to be familiar with the territory. The usual call for pilots is when you are detouring over a foreign road.that you are not familiar with.
When one railroad has trackage rights over another road, the crews of the tenant road must be familiar with the owning road.
About a year ago, as I was coming west, the owning railorad’s dispatcher stopped the Amtrak train in western Nebraska because of high winds, by the time that winds died down, the train and engine crews’ time had run out–and there was no qualified Amtrak crew available to take us in to Denver, so we not only had relief Amtrak crews (they were qualified to run west but not east from Denver, but also a BNSF engineer and a BNSF conductor to operate the train into Denver. Perhaps the only Amtrak crews that were qualified and available were to take the eastbound out of Denver that evening, and so they were not called take the westbound into Denver.
With the FRA now being involved in Qualifications. Engineers and Conductors have to keep their Qualifications current. Qualifications, I
That’s all done via a remote tape pull to the home office anymore. No more riding required.
Riding was required when I was employed - then came EHH and the elimination of the RFE position.
Of course when I was employed, a crew got 30 days off for Speeding that was deduced from a download of the locomotive a while after the trip. ETT listed 25 MPH through the area of the speeding and train was doing 25 MPH, however the Main Track was in Yard Limits and Yard Limits restricted speed through the limits to Restricted Speed (which maxes out at 15 MPH).
We still get a yearly ride, too. Of course they have access to downloads. Many engines now can be downloaded at any time, others have to go past a reader, some can only be downloaded physically. The physical ones are usually because they are looking for something specific. I’ve been stopped twice to have a download because of something that happened to/by a previous, once a couple of previous crews. Of course if they are going to all the trouble to download, they might as well review the whole available record. Once in a while catch someone who wasn’t on the radar. Now, they often will also check the inward facing camera tape, too.
Jeff
Before I retired CSX had a entire computer application dedicated to tracking downloads of both data and video from locomotives (trains) that were involved in some form of accidental happening. (crossing accident, struck pedestrian, vehicle parked too close to he tracks, etc. etc. etc.) As I recall, the locomotive had to be downloaded within 72 hours of the incident or the loop would record over the prior data. When using the application the Chief Dispater had to identify in the application which RFE had been notified and when; it was then the RFE’s responsibility to either get the download himself or arrange with one of his counterparts to have it done and then report the handling in the application. I imagine this was being done for the Legal Dept.
As do we, plus an unannounced (usually banner) test. I ran radar on a train tonight (they passed). Plus we do “219” tests - signs of drug and alcohol use.
And that’s on a tourist line…
Still a real live railroad that has to comply with FRA regulations.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say you aren’t deliberately looking to collect failures, or have any sort of quota to fill…
Yep - we tie in to the national rail network (we ride on a shortline’s rails for part of our trips).
'Xactly. We aren’t looking to “fire” anyone - it’s not like we have so many volunteers that we can afford to.
Customarily, does the “pilot” take over and actually run the train, or does he just serve in an advisory role to the “visiting” engineer?
Seems like it would be redundant to have two capable engineers on the same train, unless one has special qualifications such as a restored steam engine out on commercial trackage and what not.
It’s less a question of two capable engineers than it is one who is familiar with the equipment and one who is familiar with the territory.
Obviously, this would be especially true with, say, steam or other vintage equipment. In my case, I’m more familiar with the vintage equipment. Running a brand new loco with some high-tech stuff might be out of my league - but I know my territory.
That said, I’m pretty sure it could go either way in terms of who runs. We’ve had a couple of special excursions on our line with Amtrak power - the Amtrak engineers rather enjoy running on something other than flat, straight track, and have said so.
Well, I’ve always pictured such an arrangement as the visiting engineer at the controls, while the pilot mentors over his shoulder…but just looking at all the static about reduced crew size and expense control makes me wonder if the RR is willing to pay two engineers for the same miles?
I’ll bet those host road engineers are thrilled by a little “throttle time” when groups like 765 take their act on the road, but that really is a special situation and falls a little outside the scope of my interest.
You need to have a qualified engineer on a territory. So yeah, there are times the RR has to pay for a pilot crew.
Well, I’m glad to hear that nobody is penalized. The way the railroads are often portrayed on these boards as “scrooge”, it wouldn’t surprise me if the same taxi that delivereed the pilot also hauled the relieved “visiting” engineer to a location where he might be of more use.
Heritage operations notwithstanding, I believe where you will usually find a pilot will be on a detour move - ie, the usual route for a train on the XYZ railroad is blocked (ie, wreck, washout, etc), so the train is rerouted over the ABC railroad. ABCRR will provide a pilot over their tracks. The XYZRR crew may even originate and terminate on their own railroad.
These days, with run-through power on many trains being the norm, it’s possible that a full crew from the host railroad might just take over the move completely.
Heritage moves are relatively rare, all things considered, and may well get a road foreman instead of a regular engineer as a pilot.
On one trip back to Salt Lake City, we were detoured across Wyoming. As we backed into the station here, the UP conductor conned the engineer in, calling the signals as we approached them, as the Amtrak conducto stoodbehind him. I did not ask which engineer was running the engine.
The UP has ACS across Wyoming and into Ogden. If the lead engine powering the train does not have ACS, the maximum speed allowed is 45 mph, according to an ETT I have.
What’s a trin?
The TRIN, or Arms index, developed by Richard Arms in the 1970s, is a short-term technical analysis stock market trading indicator based on the Advance-Decline Data. The name is short for TRading INdex.
The ‘Scrooge’ part is that the company doesn’t like calling the pilot in the first place. I have seen many arguments between Engineers and ill-informed supervisors about whether or not a pilot is really needed.
The argument usually ends with the original Engineer refusing to take the train over track he is not qualified on, and the company having to call a pilot anyway.
Not sure how this goes on other railroads, but on CN the Engine Service Officers (our name for Road Foreman) normally side with the crew in situations like this, when safety is a concern.
Quoting SD70Dude, ". I have seen many arguments between Engineers and ill-informed supervisors about whether or not a pilot is really needed. " If the supervisor wants someone who does not know the territory to work the territory he should either be fired or take remedial education in railroad operation.