I have been going through old VHS tapes. On one tape was a 1-2 year old recording from the History Channel on a proposed tunnel from Alaska to Russia. The idea they covered was sections of rectangular tube layed on the ocean floor and connected like a pipe layed in the bottom of a pool. The kicker was when they questioned one guy about how to deal with the different track gauges from Russia to Alaska, his reply is they would have 4 wheels per axle so the train could go on both gauges of track. I think I’d have to see 4 wheels per axle to believe it. The tunnel idea is almost as bad, I think it would cost many times the proposed cost and have a lot of problems.
I missed that on tv, but based on what you said, it sure sound like an absurd idea.
The amount of strength such a tunnel would require is immense, not to mention a contingency plan for the eventual leak or fire…
Regarding the 4 wheels per axle, I don’t think that would be technically so difficult, but as it would require all new equipment it is not very practical. Much better to simply use containers and one track gauge, then transload them at whichever end had the non-tunnel gauge, much like is done at the ocean ports.
And then there’s the cost…is there really that much of a need for an alternate shipping solution between these two points?
That is silly. You’d only need 3 wheels per axle.
The really interesting part would be where the 4 (or 3) wheeled truck goes over a switch on the broader gauge line. [(-D]
I can see why you’d want four wheels per axle instead of three to keep the load balanced laterally. But the difference in gauge is 3.5 inches. Your inner wheels would be only 1.75" away from the outer ones–that is barely more than the thickness of the flange.
Yes, that would make for some mighty fancy switch-work! There was a picture in an old Trains "Would You Believe It? column of a complex involving switches and three different gauges of track.
(Pardon me…I have a whole bunch of frogs in my throat!)
I wonder if our narrow track would support that heavy Russian broad gage equipment.
I’m not sure the weight would be the problem–that would be the function of the trucks themselves and the roadbed beneath the track.
There was a time when CN would put standard-gauge cars on narrow-gauge trucks for operation over its Newfoundland lines. I suppose they could do something similar with Russian cars over here, provided the trucks and center pins are somewhat similar.
Can’t wait until UMLER updates its database to include Cyrillic reporting marks!
The DRGW must’ve done a little truck swapping, too. I caught this in Antonito back in 2006:
I say skip the tunnel.
Go over the north pole on the glacier.
“Ice Rail Hoggers!”
[:S]
The interchange of traffic between the Russian and Chinese railroads has a change of trucks from the Chinese standard gauge to the Russian wide gauge and vice versa…I suspect this occurs mostly on passenger trains…I believe several hours are allotted in the schedules of the trains that traverse this border.
Except in Summer; or not at all if Global Warming continues.
And of course, there are the variable-gauge axles used in Spain, such as Talgo’s.
The bigger question is the need and cost. Such a route (already technically difficult and expensive, though not impossible – witness the UK-France “Chunnel”) would only seem to make sense if there were also an Alaska – Canada rail link (another technically difficult and expensive proposal), and a link to the Russian network on the other side (I don’t believe that it currently comes up that far into the Siberian north-east).
And what happens when global warming causes most of the Polar Ice Cap to melt?
" But the difference in gauge is 3.5 inches. Your inner wheels would be only 1.75" away from the outer ones–that is barely more than the thickness of the flange."
Uh no. the wheels are at least 4 inches wide. They would overlap. It is an incredibly dumb idea all the way
I just saw a show about this tunnel and the difference in guages was adressed also. first they say the tunnel would be laid in sections joined on the bottom, both ends capped then removed after joining. Escape tunnels built in with exits every 100 to 500 feet apart. There are islands about halfway so this would be a 2 tunnel project. one fact not mentioned is the tunnels, when finished will be completely buried in concrete and ocean sediment, yet remain flexible enough to withstand earthquakes, its a very active zone. What they said about the guage issue was, yes 4 wheels, but not on a solid axle, retractable wheel sets. Believe it or not, the biggest hurdle they have to overcome isnt even railroad related, there is a river in russia, 8 miles wide! I belive the show was aired on history international, not sure, but was very interesting. Imagine taking a train from Miami to London, thats a vacation!!
Although the through Paris - Moscow sleepers change trucks, the Paris - Madrin and Paris - Lisbon cars have trucks with whieels that can slide on their axles. There are also some Takgo sets that have this capability.
[Snip] quote Carl: “(Pardon me…I have a whole bunch of frogs in my throat!)”
Switch frogs?
[Snip] quote Carl: “Can’t wait until UMLER updates its database to include Cyrillic reporting marks!”
Carl, how many of us know what Cyrillic is? Did you ever try to learn Russian? I did, until I got to the declension of nouns; that along with the Cyrillic alphabet put paid to my endeavor. Incidentally, the Cyrillic alphabet is a combination of Greek, Hebrew, Roman, and a few special letters that was [edit] used created by missionaries (one was named Cyril) to give the Russian people a written language. I had much better success with Hebrew (practically no declension) and Greek (I was already familiar with most of the letters).
Actually, the Cyrillic alphabet was created in the Bulgarian Empire in 890 at the Preslav Literary School by students of Cyril and Methodius, two Byzantine Greek brothers. It was not designed for the Russians and didn’t spread there until later.
(1) The Ramsey Transfer rides again…
(2) NEVER trust a dreamer or a transportation engineer in a railroad setting.
I wonder how many people on this thread know what a “Ramsey Transfer” was.
For those who don’t, it was a typically ingenious 19th century device for interchanging cars between standard and narrow gauge railroads by changing the trucks. The way it worked was that a car would be run into a pit, where the body would be held level by an apparatus running on tracks on the edges of the pit, allowing the trucks to drop out. Workers would then move trucks of the other gauge into place, and the car would be moved out of the pit and on its merry way. While the device was successful, it was not nearly as efficient as interchange between railroads having the same gauge. The interchange proble proved, over time, to be the achilles heel of narrow gauge railroads