When switching a big industry

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

If you’re going to switching cars inside a big industry, like an automaker, refinery, chemical plant, paper mill or big food processor, with many specific spots for cars to be loaded or unloaded, what type of information or instructions would you get before you start working?

  • I’d guess that you’d always get info about which specific car goes to which spot, or would there be any situations where it’s up to the switch crew which car to spot from a given type of cars? For example, could you get instructions to ‘take any clean empty box car from the storage track and put in spot 3 for loading’?

  • Would you get instructions of which time the different spots or tracks needs to be switched during a shift, or in what order they needs to be switched, or is that up to the switch crew? If it’s predetermined, would the switching get done in the same sequence day after day?

  • Are there industries where a spot or track needs to be switched several times during the same shift? If so, how would the switch crew know when it’s time to switch the spot/track again?

  • If empties needs to be taken to a cleanout track to be cleaned and inspected before loading, is that a move that would be on a switch list, or is that just something you do before you spot the car for loading?

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For a railroad switched industry the switch crew gets a switch list(s) from their yerdmaster showing the cars for the “setting” (as it was known on the BN). Most times the cars for the setting are on different yard tracks and the switch crew digs them out and arranges them in order for easier spotting at the industry.

The yardmaster may also have a list of “pulls” for the crew, or the industry may give the crew the list.

When arriving at the industry the switch foreman first goes to the person in charge of the loading dock at the industry. Many times door plates will have to be removed, hoses may have to be disconnected, etc. Sometimes a car marked as a pull isn’t ready to go (not loaded yet or not unloaded yet) so it is left instead of being pulled. The industry may want a car at a particular spot, or cars in a certain order so the dock person will tell the switch foreman that. Once everything is clear and the industry has pulled their blue flags and wheel chocks the switch crew can start their work.

If an industry wants a car moved from one spot to another spot in the industry that’s considered an in-plant switch, and the industry is charged for it.

Cars for an industry are cleaned and inspected by the railroad (or a contractor) before going to the yard (or yard track) serving that industry.

Many types of cars are in assigned service, some to a particular industry, others for specific service (paper loading for example). For mty cars, the industry will usually just request so many of a certain type of car when they send their switch order to the yardmaster. For example, the paper mill I used to switch would order X no. of “regular boxes” (70-ton capacity 50’ plug door cars), Y no. of “high caps” (50’ plug door cars upgraded with 100 ton capacity trucks), and Z no. of “high cubes” (the newer 50’ plug door high cube cars like FBOX cars).

For loads to be spotted the industry may want certa

3

Thanks for the answer, very informative.

One question, so it’s up to the dock person to tell the switch forman if the industry want the tracks to be switched in a specific order. Otherwise it’s up to the switch crew to switch the tracks in what order they se fit.

Mattias

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“One question, so it’s up to the dock person to tell the switch foreman if the industry wants the tracks to be switched in a specific order. Otherwise it’s up to the switch crew to switch the tracks in what order they see fit.”

That is correct. The industry may have one track ready to switch but they are still working other tracks (loading or unloading cars) so we would do the one track first. Sometimes nothing is ready and we sit for a while (I’ve done that more than a few times).

If there is going to be a long delay we may go do other work in the area and return later, or the yardmaster might bring us in (by van) for a meal period if we are getting close to penalty lunch.

Kurt Hayek

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Wherever there are specific spots for specific products (this is normally referred to as a’closed gate’ customer) - it is up to the Industry to specify which specific cars go to which specific spots and they will issue appropriate orders to the crew - taking care so as to no set up the liability for a intra-plant switch charge by ordering a car from one specific spot to another specific spot. However, progressive placement rules may apply on some tracks. (Progressive placement is where a track handles cars of the same product - [spot 1 nearest the locomotive - spot 5 furthest from the locomotive] spots 3, 4 & 5, have empties to be pulled - spots 1 & 2 have cars that are loaded or part loaded but can be moved - crew pulls the empties and places 3 new loads, shoving cars in spots 1 & 2 down to spots 4 & 5 and placing the new loads in spots 1, 2, & 3.)

Where there is a single product line and ‘open’ switching rules are in effect (also known as a ‘open gate’ customer), the industry will identify which cars are to be pulled and the crew will pull those cars and place inbound cars in their place with moves that require a minimum of switching. Open gate customers are obligated to accept all cars for them when the carrier shows up with them.

In large industries the act of swtiching the industry tracks shuts down the normal production cycle on those tracks until they are fully switched and given back to

6

BaltACD—

I never heard of it referred to as “progressive spotting” but that’s exactly what we did at the paper mill we switched in Duluth. The mill had two tracks at the paper loading shed, each with four spots in the building. The dock foreman would tell us which cars to pull, and which stayed. For example at “Door 1” (track 1) we might have to pull cars 1 and 3, and leave cars 2 and 4. We grabbed the whole track and pulled out to the main where we would switch out the “guts” (pulls) and set the holds back to the lead. We then shoved back to the spot with cars 2 and 4 first-in to the building plus the mty boxes following and spotted the cars, leaving four cars (the two holds plus two new mty boxes).

Door 4 at the mill was an example of an “open gate” spot: Here we usually just pulled two mty clay tanks and put two loads in their place. It was very rare to have just one of the two tanks to pull.

Kurt Hayek

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A few industries our local freights serve provide diagrams of the spots at their facilites. They will designate on the diagram which car, by initial/number, they want at each specific spot. They either fax it to the yard office where the local originates the instructions or leave a copy in a box at the entrance to the facility.

Jeff

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Jeff—

We had that also for some industries, especially ones that were switched on nights when there was no one around to give us instructions.

Working industries at night had some challenges: nice because no one was in your way, but stumbling around in the dark was no joy, and if their spots weren’t well marked it was guesswork figuring where to actually spot the cars.

Kurt Hayek

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Pretty much every ‘plant/factory’ switch job has its own requirements[Idiosyncrasies ?). I worked at a plant that had a single spuir track, approx 1/4 mile in length) Our dropped casrs were worked on the East end,( there were usually 2 to 3 cars dropped to be unloaded).

Because our switch crew came from Memphis to the west, they waited for their return trip to work our site. They turned back at Brownsville to go back to Leawood Yd. We had warnings they were in the area, because they ate lunch at our cafeteria, while their engine and train idled on our siding, to clear the mainline.

Over on the ICRR in North Memphis, They worked their industrial switching jobs in the evening; this kept the mainline clear for the " City of NO" to come thru on the ‘Passenger main’. Most of the business that were switched used trackside mail boxes to pass the switch orders, and lists to the conductors on their jobs. Crude, but it worked.

Houston Ed could probably be a real good resource to tell you how they switch the industries around the Houston area… When it is dry! [:-^]

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Many shippers will email a list of cars needed to be worked to the rr that the condr will have with him and make copies for all crewmen. This shipper document could also be a fax with data as to what spots to place requested cars, respots, pulls,etc. BNSF Customer Service prefers shippers not to do this but most of them wisely ignore what the rr says anyway

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I don’t think I understand why Customer Service would object to direct communication between the customer and the employees who are going to do the work. Are they afraid of switching surcharges not being imposed? Mere empire building by insisting they be involved? Something else?

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Interesting details, gives a much broder understanding of the work and how the plant personnel passes information to the rr-crew. And “progressive spotting” was news to me. I would have guesed that you’d have to put cars back at the same spot they came from.

Yes, many big plants around the Houston ship chanel. Would love to learn more about how they’re switched. With the plants in production around the clock, I guese there would a lot of switching that needs to be coordinated with the plant personnel.

Mattias

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Railroads want to get paid for the switching they do - without going through the proper channels intra-plant switches may be made ‘under the table’; thus the carrier ends up performing a service for which it isn’t getting paid.

The industry is entitled to one placement of a car within the authority of the freight bill. If the car is placed at an additional spot at the industry’s direction, a intra-plant switch charge applies.

Closed gate industries that have ‘Leased Tracks’ and have all their inbound placed on the lease track upon arrival in the serving yard then pay an intra-plant switch charge to have the car placed in their plant - the placement on the lease track was the ‘free’ placement of the car. Leased tracks are generally obtained by HAZMAT customers, as the HAZMAT regulations perclude the carriers from holding HAZMAT on the carriers property until ordered into an industry. The Leased Track is normally a track in the serving yard that the customer has executed a legally

14

This varies from railroad to railroad, and because I work for a switching/terminal road, our way of doing things are a little more intense, but…

Every train that comes to the PTRA passes several AEI scanners.

Once our clerks pull 2 scans that match, they load the “train sheet” as scanned into our computer.

Keep in mind all these cars have been ordered by customers weeks/ months in advance, so all the info on them is known, who they go to, and where in the plant the customer wanted the car, but that can change depending on the customers current needs or desires.

Cars that were destined for a specific track may become hold or storage cars by the time they arrive.

Or, conversly, cars that were hold or storage cars become spot cars or cars the customer wants staged for delivery.

Our customers have until 10 am the day before delivery to them to update the status of a car.

My job is to take inbound trains from our member lines, (BNSF, UP and KCS) and switch these cars into some paticular order.

We have two basic types of cars…those being “blocked”, meaning they are going on to one of our other yards to be reswitched into a specific order and delivery to a customer, or “classified” meaning I put them in the order they go into the plants by either a specific place in the plant, or depending on the customer, no paticular order other than as a large group that the customer will move around inside their plant with their own switch crew.

Cars that are classified are assigned to a paticular yard track…everything in say, track 46 goes to Shell…and when I finish that track, the cars are in the order Shell last told us they needed them, that track will go straight out to Shell as it sits, along with other classified tracks of cars for the other plants that road crew will work.

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These are two pages out of our ZTS, or Zone, Track and Spot book each crew member is issued,you can see the details a crew member would use to place a car.

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An old switch list, you can see how much information it has, including what customer, what track and what spot the car is assigned to.

17

Ed, When I clicked on the right arrow on your Photobucket of p41, I found images of a schnauble (sp) car. It had what looked like ABB lettering on it which I presume is Asea Brown Bovari and for hauling large transformers and generators. What can you tell me about it. Is your railroad its home?

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Yup, ABB is on the Brown lead, way back in the day, the Brown and Root folks had big industrial complex on the channel, right next door is the Brown Ship building complex, we serve the 15 or so customers in there, the place is now known as Greensport, it is where Greens Bayou meets the ship channel.

Side note, Brown built my Dad’s WWII Destroyer Escort, the DE 419, which he served on during WWII, they sailed it to San Francisco for fitting out before service. They even sent out invitations to the launching of this and several other DEs.

ABB gets Schnauble cars all the time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7524811,-95.2024741,61m/data=!3m1!1e3

Zoom in and you can see one being staged into ABB.

ABB is the big group of buildings just above the group of white oil storage tanks.

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Feel free to browse my Photobucket stuff, lots of odd cars, locomotives and stuff there.

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So the ‘Leased tracks’ are always on railroad property? Are SIT-yards a variation of ‘Leased tracks’? A collection of them?

How about the tracks on the plant property that looks like yard tracks, but might be called something else, like Lubrizol storage or some of all those tracks at Intercontinental on Eds ZTS pages. Are they an alternativ to ‘Leased tracks’, a complement to them, or are they used in another way?

Mattias