Perhaps some of us can remember or have ridden in 6 axle heavyweights. I’m sure Forum members Johnny Deggs and David Klepper have slept in heavyweight Pullman’s.
Back in ‘da day’, meticulous trackwork was the order of the day for major passenger carriers like the New York Central. Was that a game changer?
So I ask the gathered masses on the Classic Forum, ’ just what combination of equipment, what time period and where was the ride incredibly smooth.
Was it the route of the Century, C&O sleep like a kitten, Santa Fe’s Super Chief, the hi-level equipment of the El Capitan or something else somewhere else?
Heaveyweights on stick rail gave a very smooth ride, despite the clickety clack from what I recall. Those beautiful cars with their plush seats were quite steady. Also I recall in 2009 on VIA equipment through Northern Ontario was like skimming over glass or ice from the dome car, exceptionally smooth, so older 50’s equipment on welded rail, more a function of making double stacks happy than the folks, but man that was smooooooth. Took the Lakeshore Chicago-Buffalo 2004 in a sleeper and that was horrendously rough and rattled and shook every which way. Worse around the Cleveland area but overall very nasty. Exhausting.
Sad to say, I never slept in a heavyweight Pullman. My first trip by Pullman was in January of 1962–a roomette from Hattiesburg, Mississippi, to Birmingham. All of my nights in berths–upper and lower–were in lightweight cars.
I did spend several nights in heavyweight coaches; indeed one of the most comfortable nights I spent I slept on the seat next to the men’s room in an OLD coach and was able to stretch out on th
Do you think, in your opinion or knowledgable expertise, that travel in the, say 1935 20th Century Ltd, was just as smooth or smoother, jolting and bumping free, and something that perhaps we have only or could attain again with modern technology? Or better yet in the 1939 version? I actually did sleep in a heavy weight Pullman Toronto- New York but I was a toddler and don’t remember much. Initial boarding and arrival in the concourse at Grand Central are misty snapshots and feelings, that’s it.
In the early '70s I spent considerable time on the Clockers between NYC and Philadelphia, in the days between Amtrak and Amfleet. By far the smoothest ride I can remember was in one of the old P70s … velvet upholstery, bronze seat frames, concrete in the deck like a GG1. You could distantly hear excitement as the wheels tracked crossovers and joints, but none of that was perceptible in any axis of motion, and the generally dim lighting added to the soporific effect.
I presume this was one of the P70s with rebuilt trucks, but had no way to verify that at the time.
On the other hand, the WORST ride involved a stretch rebuilt with concrete ties, and an Amfleet consist: the ride and vibration got so abrupt, so suddenly, that I thought for nearly a minute we had derailed an axle…
On a family vacation in 1959 we went from Garrett, IN to Chicago on the Shenandoah to catch the Panama Limited to New Orleans, after several days a NOLA it was on to Jacksonvill aboard the Gulf Wind. Renting a car at Jacksonville to enjoy a week at Daytona Beach and then coming back to Jacksonville to catch the Silver Meteor to Baltimore for several days with friends and family and then taking the Capitol Limited back to Garrett. Pullman all the way.
All the sleeping accomidations were in lightweight cars and I don’t recall any as being extreme, either good or bad. That being said, one portion of the trip stands out in my memory from 59 years ago. The diner on the Gulf Wind was a car named Crossed Key Tavern, a heavyweight, it rode like something that should have been called ‘Square Wheels Tavern’. The food was of reasonable, if not exemplary quality (what does a 13 YO know about food) but the ride was worth of the mechanical bull from Gilley’s in Dallas. It being a L&N car it got switched out at Mobile (I think - or maybe Flomaton), a SAL diner got switched into the train at Chattachoochee when it came onto SAL tracks.
Little did I know at that time but later in my career the route from New Orleans to Jacksonville as well as from Jacksonville to Savannah and Richmond to Washington would be part of the areas I would be responsible for.
Thanks Overmod-- That confirms that heavyweights, concrete floors, solid seating, all their characteristics provided an exceptionally smooth ride, perhaps something taken for granted, just as a P70 was, and rarely matched today, at least in North America.
When the hi-level El Capitan was being introduced, a trainload of equipment was brought to Washington DC for all the normal publicity trips. With my fathers position with B&O our family got the opportunity to ride a dinner trip from Washington Union Station to Point of Rocks and return - very smooth riding equipment and a pretty good dinner as I recall. Somewhere in my possessions I have a coin that was a commerative of the publicity trips.
I am sorry, but I do not feel qualified to comment on ride quality outside the South until my first experience outside the South, which was in 1968.
I will say that the first experience of rough riding came four years ago, when I rode the Crescent from Washington to Charlotte and back, sleeping in a Viewliner both ways. Below Charlottesville, the I did not notice any special roughness, but above the Charlottesville the ride was rougher than any other I had experienced; I had trouble going to sleep southbound and woke about Charlottesville northbound. My engine trip from Reform to Aliceville and back on 10 mph track in December of 1970 was not as rough.
Have ridden too many engines on ‘excepted track’ where when the lead truck of the engine runs of the near rail joint, the far end of the rail visually kicks up a inch or two. Needless to say this was at 10 MPH or slower.
Jones1945 declares: “When, where, and what equipment gave the smoothest ride?”.
July 28, 1939, New York Penn Station, Best Pacific K4s + Rebuilt P70s coaches - The Trail Blazer
Also your admitted favourite railroad, train and equipment so I’m thinking a certain bias here!.. but I could be wrong, maybe it was.
All the glitteratie and swells on the 20th Century and the Super Chief would not tolerate rough track or equipment so I’m thinking those routes were better or at least the equivalent of anything we have today.
Not sure but I’m thinking the Sante Fe likely never got put into a deferred track maintenance spiral, think they always maintained a high standard and kept impoving. They were always winning some kind of industry award.
Not “The Water Level Route, You Can Sleep”…but could you??
Heck no. I’ve never ridden a passenger train farther than 25 miles (50 round trip) on an excursion but I wouldn’t be able to sleep. Can’t sleep on airplanes either, too exciting to be there! [:D]
The Hi-Levels’ immediate predecessors were Budd-built 48 seat coaches built in 1953. Smooth riding with the incredible Heywood-Wakefield Sleepy Hollow seats. In Amtrak’s Heritage Fleet era whatever shop rebuilt them retained the seats and much of the interior design. Still a good ride in 1990 on the Lake Shore.
My first experience in overnight travel outside the South had me going coach from Birmingham to Carbondale on the Seminole, thence to St. Louis on the IC, and up to Chicago in a parlor on the GM&O. I continued to Washington in a Slumbercoach on the B&O–and I went to sleep in Indiana and woke as we were leaving Cumberland. Having spent the first night sitting up in an IC coach, I was not at all surprised at my sleeping well the second night. this was in June of 1968.
I did sleep in NYC’s version of Slumber coaches in 1969 and 1970- going from NYC to Detroit and going from from Rensselaer to Chicago. Again, I slept well each time.
No need to take my opinion too seriously on this topic, Miningman. [:P] It was more like a wild guess than a declaration since I didn’t even have a chance to ride on these legendary coaches and sleeper. But judging from the popularity of the train and the first-hand experience from Overmod (on a P70s with rebuilt trucks in the 1970s), rebuilt heavyweight coach like P70s should be good enough to provide a smooth ride, if not the smoothest.
Your poster of Broadway Limited makes me rethink the different riding quality between lightweight and heavyweight coaches and sleepers. It reminds the story of B&O’s decision of using heavyweight rebuilt cars for their premier train (I forgot which one) instead of their new lightweight cars. Maybe it was the reason why Pennsy kept using heavyweight sleepers on the General for a while after 1938.
B&O used heavyweight rebuilds for the Capitol Limited, National Limited, Royal Blue Limited and the Cincinnatian.
B&O purchased two lightweight train sets for the Abraham Lincoln and The Royal Blue. The Abe operated on the B&O owned Alton between St. Louis and Chicago; the Royal Blue operated between Washington and Jersey City with connecting ferry/bus service to multiple locations in NYC.
Daniel Willard after first hand experience did not like the ride quality of the lightweight train set on the Royal Blue and had that train set sent to the Alton to pair with the Abe as the Ann Rutledge. Thereafter, during Willard’s reign, all B&O primere trains were ‘streamlined’ with heavyweight rebuilds, for both ride quality as well as economy.
After Willard’s passing the B&O did order two lightweight streamlined train sets that included a low height dome car from Pullman Standard for the all coach Columbian between Washington and Chicago.
My first heavyweight Pullnan ride was in a camp special attached to the State-of-Maine, Grand Central Terminal - Concord, NH. age 6, 1938. My last was in Dovyer Colony around 1990, Seattke - New York, vi\ the Pioneer, Cal Zephyre, and Broadway, with meals and sightseeing in LV 353. Last standard gauge non-special ride, Boston - NY, NYNH&H "Dollar Saver Sleeper, 1960. Then Newfy Bullet narrow-gauge sleeper 1968 or 1969 with Maurie Kleibolt.
Ride qualitiy was never an issue anytime in any heavweight sleeper. For the very smoothest lightweigiht sleeper ride, I would say the the IC’s Panama in 1958 and 1959. But some of the roughest in 1969! Sante Fe always gave a smooth ride in any kind of equipment. I did not have any problems sleeping on either the Broadway or the Century in their all-Pullman days.
BaltACD— Thank you for your pics and historical background of B&O’s limiteds! Reminds me the “battle” between the Cincinnatian of B&O; designed by Olive Dennis, and the broken dream of C&O and Robert R. Young’s: The Chessie. Too bad that the C&O Turbine didn’t work out. We can only imagine the result of the battle between the Cincinnatian (using heavyweight betterment cars) and the never happened Chessis (using brand new lightweight equipment).
Dave and Johnny— It’s very generous of you to share your first-hand experiences of traveling on different railroads and equipment! Thanks for that!
Robert R. Young’s unrestrained gambling (Note the unmodified front end)
