Where are the engines for the BLI California Zepher Cars -

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

What engines are in current production and available for pulling the California Zepher passenger train?

It seems strange that BLI is not releasing any EMD F units to go with the latest run of Californa Zephyr passenger cars.

It seems that Walthers does not have any EMD F units currently being produced in any of the roadnames that would be sutable for pulling this great train.

Intermountain is the only manufacturer I found that has annonced that they will be releasing a DRGW F unit in June of this year.

I see no F unts being offered currently in the CBQ or WP passenger livery, only Intermountain’s offering in June (if it is on time) of the DRGW F units.

2

Don7 … I use BLI Blue Line CBQ E7’s which are appropriate for the CZ, and I am pleased with them. Walthers P2K had some great ones, but they were limited production for only a brief period. The CBQ F3’s were re-assigned to freight service, and repainted to freight colors. I can not answer about DRGW or WP locos.

3

Do you mean only ones currently in production? If not there are plenty out there. I have Proto-2000 PAs in both the black and 4 strip D&RGW colors. I have a set if PCM F3s ABA in the CB&Q Silver scheme, I also have some Broadway Limited CB&Q E7s and Proto-2000 E8s. Finally I have a set of Athearn Genesis F7s in the D&RGW single stripe scheme.

PCM also did an Alco PA in the original silver aspen scheme (yuck), And I have seen someone’s FP7 painted in WP passenger scheme. There are WP F3s in WP passenger scheme from various manufactures going back to the orignal Stewarts. So they are out there, just maybe not in current production.

I don’t know that it is strange as I am certain a lot more people have locomotives without trains rather than the other way around. I had many of these locomotives before the first release of the CZ cars. The PCM F3s are the only ones I purchased specifically for the CZ cars.

4

You could always model the PRR as one car went through to New York. So one ccar and a GG1 and you would be set.

5

First, let me identify what engines actually pulled the CZ from the railroads that participated:

CB&Q pulled the CZ from Chicago to Denver:

-Silver passenger F3ABA set starting in 1949 thru early 1950’s, then E7’s and E8’s mainly after that thru the end in 1970.

D&RGW pulled the CZ from Denver to Salt Lace City:

-Alco PA/PB/PA sets from 1949-1958 (painted black with yellow stripes until 1952, yellow/silver with four stripes from 1952 onward).

-EMD F3ABBA painted black and silver started pulling the CZ as early as 1950, repainted in yellow/silver 4 stripe around 1952.

During the 52-58 time frame both EMD F3’s and Alco PA’s pulled the CZ. After 1958 it was all EMD F3’s. The F3’s were repainted in single stripe around April/May 1961. By the end of 1965, the F3’s were retired.

During 1966-1970 F9’s and F7’s pulled the CZ, usully from the following number sets:
-F9ABBA #5771,5772,5773,5774, F7A’s #5761, 5764, 5471, 5574, 5551, and of course F9B’s 5762, 5763. F9A #5774 was wrecked by fall 1958.

Western Pacific:

F3ABB sets pulled the CZ at first but by 1951 or so, WP purchased FP7A’s and F7B’s to suppliment, and after that it was primarily FP7A’s which led the WP power consists followed by two B units made up from F7B’s and F3B’s.

Athearn Genesis has produced Genesis F9AB and ABB sets in single stripe which is good for late 60’s.as well as F3ABBA sets in 4 stripe and single stripe, and black/yellow stripe.

Proto 2000 has produced F3ABBA sets in single stripe but are a bit less accurate but very close.

Proto 2000 has produced PABA sets in yellow/silver four stripe but are hard to find.

BLI/MTH has produced PA’s in silver, black/yellow, and yellow/silver 4 stripe (just out recently).

Proto 2000 has made silver CB&Q E8’s and F3’s also I believe.

Genesis just produced last year accurate FP7A/F3B or FPA/F7B sets, as well as F3ABB sets in the past.

6

I preordered the Intermountain D&RGW F AB set that is coming out in June/July.

To go with my BLI Cal Zephyr cars from 2007. That Tom so graciously sold me a few of months ago.

7

FYI, the announced Intermountain single stripe F7’s would not be good choices to pull the CZ since generally after the F3’s were retired, it was phase II F7A’s #5761/5764 and F9A’s #5771/5774 which were most invovled. There are photo’s of F7A’s from the passenger series #555x,556x and 557x did lead the CZ on a part time basis. If you number the single stripe F7A’s 5554, 5571, 5774 did participate pulling the CZ, along with boiler equipped B units from those sets in the 1966-1970.

I’ve got the following from the list I posted earlier to pull my CZ cars:

-Genesis F3ABBA set #5541-5544 single stripe (1961-1965)

-Genesis F9ABBBA set #5771-5762-5763-5773-5774, plus F7A #5764 (to cover 1966-1970)

-Genesis F9ABB set #5771-5762-5763 (from above) to pull the Rio Grande Zephyr in 1971-1983

15 CZ cars to create a full 12 car CZ or an 8 car Rio Grande Zephyr made up of a Palace Car Company Pullman Standard combine, 48 seat chair car, 3 dome coaches 1 dome lounge, 1 diner and 1 dome observation.

I also have a Genesis FP7A and two Stewart F3B’s to pull the CZ out of SLC westward.

8

Last I heard, Genesis still had the F-3 Rio Grande diesels in A-B configuration in both the early black and yellow and later 4-stripe schemes. I’ve got one set of each.

Of course, I sold off my first-run BLI CZ set a couple of months ago, LOL! But the Genesis diesels should still be out there.

Tom

9

Just keep in mind the time frame of the color schemes for Rio Grande - that is if it matters to you:

Black/yellow stripe 1949-1952, but during that time frame it was really the Alco PA’s that pulled the CZ for the most part. One set of black/yellow F3’s pulled the CZ for at most 2 years in the configuration, which is a limited time frame.

Yellow/silver 4 stripe lasted approx 1952-1961

Yellow/silver single stripe era 1961-1970 and beyond.

10

[quote user=“riogrande5761”]

First, let me identify what engines actually pulled the CZ from the railroads that participated:

CB&Q pulled the CZ from Chicago to Denver:

-Silver passenger F3ABA set starting in 1949 thru early 1950’s, then E7’s and E8’s mainly after that thru the end in 1970.

D&RGW pulled the CZ from Denver to Salt Lace City:

-Alco PA/PB/PA sets from 1949-1958 (painted black with yellow stripes until 1952, yellow/silver with four stripes from 1952 onward).

-EMD F3ABBA painted black and silver started pulling the CZ as early as 1950, repainted in yellow/silver 4 stripe around 1952.

During the 52-58 time frame both EMD F3’s and Alco PA’s pulled the CZ. After 1958 it was all EMD F3’s. The F3’s were repainted in single stripe around April/May 1961. By the end of 1965, the F3’s were retired.

During 1966-1970 F9’s and F7’s pulled the CZ, usully from the following number sets:
-F9ABBA #5771,5772,5773,5774, F7A’s #5761, 5764, 5471, 5574, 5551, and of course F9B’s 5762, 5763. F9A #5774 was wrecked by fall 1958.

Western Pacific:

F3ABB sets pulled the CZ at first but by 1951 or so, WP purchased FP7A’s and F7B’s to suppliment, and after that it was primarily FP7A’s which led the WP power consists followed by two B units made up from F7B’s and F3B’s.

Athearn Genesis has produced Genesis F9AB and ABB sets in single stripe which is good for late 60’s.as well as F3ABBA sets in 4 stripe and single stripe, and black/yellow stripe.

Proto 2000 has produced F3ABBA sets in single stripe but are a bit less accurate but very close.

Proto 2000 has produced PABA sets in yellow/silver four stripe but are hard to find.

BLI/MTH has produced PA’s in silver, black/yellow, and yellow/silver 4 stripe (just out recently).

Proto 2000 has made silver CB&Q E8’s and F3’s also I believe.

Genesis just produced last year accurate FP7A/F3B or FPA/F7B sets, as well as

11

When MTH won the settlement against the Korean builder a few years ago, the tooling for the BLI/PCM F3/F7 was awarded to MTH for their use since it was owned by the Korean builder and not BLI. BLI did not own the tooling but got the rights to have several other new toolings made for them which they have probably used up, but skipped remaking the F units. The information below is directly from the announcement at that time.

CZ

The tools involved are the HO Union Paci c Big Boy, HO Pennsylvania GG-1 electric, HO Alco PA and FA

diesel and HO EMD F3/F7 diesel. Broadway Limited will no longer produce products made with these old

tools, but would not rule out creating updated versions of these products in the future. No other products

are a- ected.

ORMOND BEACH, Fla. AUGUST 15, 2008 – Broadway Limited is pleased to learn of the settlement of a

long-running lawsuit between its primary manufacturer, Model Korea Trading Company and Mike’s Train

House (MTH). While Broadway Limited was not directly involved in the suit, the company cooperated with

the settlement to ensure the nancial health of its supplier. As part of the settlement, Broadway Limited

delivered 5 sets of tools for some of its older products to its manufacturer in exchange for 5 new tools to be

delivered at a future date. The rst of these is the HO Pennsy I1sa, which will be delivered next month.

“We are never pleased to lose old tooling, but we felt we had sold as many of these products as the market

wanted, and we are excited at the opportunity to have 5 sets of new tools at no additional cost.“ said Bob

Grubba, Broadway Limit

12

It’s true that BLI hasn’t done a coordinated release of diesels for the CZ cars that have been produced. But lets look at how they produced them, they have had already 3 runs since what, 2006 thru 2010, and another due this summer. During that time frame a lot of CZ appropriate power has been offerred by Proto 2000 (F3’s), Genesis F7’s F9’s and F3’s in all 3 major D&RGW paint, Genesis just came out with FP7’s with F7B/F3B’s since 2011/2012, and MB Kleins still had them up until recently. Athearns most recent run of F3’s in black/yellow just came out and is probably still findable.

Basically rather than be distressed that BLI didn’t offer power sets for WP/D&RGW/CB&Q, go use your internet powers to locate something from the many that have been made. It’s only a matter of time, probably less than a year, before you locate what you want on Ebay or a train show or what have you. You may have to dig but you’ll find something.

13

Somewhere I have an early colour photo of a three unit PA/PB set on the California Zephyr. The locomotives were painted silver overall to match the train with a yellow/orange area on the nose. I don’t know if the locomotives kept this scheme for long.

M636C

14

The silver D&RGW PA’s ran that way from 1949 to 1852, so approx 3 years.

15

Guys,

You gotta remember, chasing down the trains you need is a lot like chasing skirts. Lots to choose from, but often hard to get, much of the fun is in the chase itself.

With a little patience, you’ll find what you need.

16

Chasing skirts? Ahh I did that back in the 80s. Been so long I don’t remember how I did that. LOL

Seriously, he’s right, it’s kinda fun trying to search for the trains you need, and when you find one, it’s even better.

17

I was never very good at chasing skirts. I had to fly to England to chase down my 2nd wife, who come to train shows with me. She’s a keeper.

18

Guys, if you wish to talk about skirts, the CZ’s Budd cars were equipped with skirts, and the trains had a hostess on board. … If you are talking about other stuff … well… Railroaders do like to couple up. [:-^]

19

Hey, I’m OK with them either skirted or de-skirted – the Budd cars that is [;)] [:P]

I share in Jim’s luck. My wife is a big rail fan. Our honeymoon trip was to ride the Tour of the Line on the Algoma Central, all the way from the Soo to Hearst – and back.

Got to see the newly arrived, newly ex-Ski Train at the old ACR shops, too. [:D]

I feel the pain of those doing without. I’m pretty well stocked with Rio Grande F units, but those were acquired over a number of years. I think the immediacy of the internet feeds a certain impatience that, if we think back on it, we tolerated better in the past. Certainly, the manufacturers have catered to that. The now-nearly endless recession for working folks has slowed that pace down some, so people’s needs are starting to build up. I’d almost bet that those who have the appropriate products are watching BLI’s release.

A keen eye on release announcements and patience, Grasshopper, your time – and locos – will come.

20

Oh, and while we are on the subject of skirts, I still need to find out how to get two Pullman Standard PCC Prospector combines painted. One is skirted as originally built #1230, and the other is (oh my!) deskirted as per the P-S ex-Prospector combine #1231.

Didn’t the ex-Ski train heavyweight cars go to the Napa Valley Wine Train, not far from my old stomping grounds in northern California?

I too have been collecting over the last 15-20 years but I think if people hunt treasure, they will eventually find some. The internet really helps these day in that regard. The recession has slowed me down somewhat, mainly in terms of a place to build, but hope springs eternal.