I just got home from my son’s tonsilectomy and adnoidectomy, and was going to sit down to get some entertainment from the MTH ad thread, only to find out that it has apparently disappeared. I tried searching for the thread under the keyword MTH, but it was vaporized.
The thread had grown to four pages in about two days, so the topic was obviously of interest; at least it was to this long time subscriber to the print edition of “Model Railroader”.
What I saw in the thread were comments about the following good things:
People were surprised at the negative tone of the MTH ad in the July 2006 Model Railroader, and expressed that opinion on this electronic medium to the people that print the magazine.
Several people pointed out to those who defend BLI that their quality and accuracy were nothing to write home about. Note - I don’t own any BLI products at present. I would if they made something I want to buy, and the thread sure gave me an idea of what to expect - about the same level of quality that I have to put up with in my O scale hi-rail interests, which is at times pretty pathetic.
Several people pointed out that the last steam engine this scale needed was another Pennsy K-4, something that the eastern-centric MTH fails to understand.
A few people pointed out that they are still very cheezed off at MTH’s legal letter to the DCC community
There were a couple of very eloquent posts that stated that by and large, the HO and N scale communities are not loyal to a particular manufacturer, and will buy from whatever manufacturer produces products that meet their modeling needs.[/*
There are several people that are willing to cut MTH some slack and let their product’s efforts determine their success, or failure.
I guess the thread was too much of a good thing. [:D]
Since I didn’t get a chance to post to the thread before it was yanked, I’ll spout off here with a few points.
Well, it is Kalmbach’s forum,so they have the right to do whatever they darn well please with the content, however, I sure didn’t see anything in the thread that merited deletion. Maybe Bergie could have done one of the following instead:
As a representative of “Model Railroader” magazine, respond in writing as to why such negative ads are accepted by Kalmbach for publication in their magazines. As a subscriber, I’d sure like to know.
Lock the original thread. There were some very valid complaints about both the manufacturers involved. OGR seems to be able to do that on hot topics on their forum that degenerate into non-productive shouting matches.
Delete only those threads that violated the terms and conditions under which people post to this forum, which I didn’t remember seeing.
I e-mailed Bergie. He deleted the thread because he felt it had degenerated and was full of incorrect information. He felt it was easier to remove its presence that to try to counteract it.
There really needs to be a place were both sides have a chance to present their theory and an independed panel of neutral patent/legal/technology experts can comment as well. Maybe then the whole issue will simmer down and go away. Bergie agreed.
I don’t know how that could be accomplished, but I do not think Kalmbach’s web pages or magazines would be the right place to resolve this vendor dispute. Maybe the NMRA or the MRIA.
Everything will become clear over the next year or so. If the new MTH loco does not sell very well, then like others before them, they will quietly slink away from the HO scale market. If it sells well, then we will will see some more releases. I don’t particularly care either way. This particular model has no appeal to me regardless of who the maker is.
Why should Bergie need to respond? MTH paid for the ad and it did not violate community standards so MR ran it. As long as it’s not obscene or libelous, the advertiser controls the content of the ad. That’s how advertising works.
From what I have seen, MTH will reap a mixed whirlwind. With everybody calling attention to the ad, chances are it will get more exposure that would otherwise be expected. OTOH, s high percentage of that exposure is likely to be negative.
Of course, there’s always that old saying, “There’s no such thing as bad PR.” [;)]
Being a MR subscriber, I e-mailed my concerns about the MTH ad to MR and I also e-mailed MTH informing them that I thought their ad was in very poor taste. I received replies to both e-mails. MTH apologized & said in future ads they will stress the advantages of their products in order to ensure a positive impact rather then a negative one. MR agreed that the ad was distasteful, it somehow slipped thru the system and that it would not be run again. We all seemed to agree that this is not what this hobby is all about. I appreciated the response from both parties.OK, The derailment has been cleared…now let’s HIGHBALL!!!..regards, John
One thing that’s funny about their ad is they go on about all the flaws with the BLI K4 against theirs (when BLI don’t even purport to model a 1927 era loco)… but they managed to get their own loco wrong. The markers on the tender of a K4 should be on the deck in the 1927 loco - they were moved to the rear of the tender in about 1940.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I know from several good sources that MTH watches the forums closely so they know the negative impact the ad may have had. Of course people have been saying bad things about them since the whole DCC manufacturer warning anyway, so I’m sure they figured they couldn’t do any worse in the minds of the MR forum members… [;)]
While I think many people still have the wrong idea concerning MTH’s letter to the DCC community, it could have been done with better tact IMHO, and the fact that several manufacturers (I won’t name names) blamed delays with their products on the need to investigate the letter futher didn’t help either. My guess is what started out as a direct warning to QSI ended up being more of a snafu than MTH expected it to be. If anyone has the Lionel Challenger or Turbine they probably realize the QSI decoder in those products has the speed control enabled and that speed control is in 1 smph increments. Speed control in 1 smph increments is part of the MTH patent for the Proto2/3 control system. Also as far as I can recall, BLI never printed the speed control warning in any of their ads, but I could be wrong.
Jerry, I don’t think MTH meant to interfere with any future development with DCC or any other control system. M
MTH needs to stop thinking about their rights in the legal world. They need to think about what model railroaders think is right if they expect to make it in HO.