Where do you draw the snob line?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
21

Hey, whatever stokes your firebox…

However, If a modeler is trying to replicate ABC RR on MMDDYYYY and I see some inaccuracies, I might ask to see if they know better. I would take the polite approach (that’s great, but it could be better by…).

Admittedly, I model the Southern Railway, and my roster includes a FA (in green) and a FP45 (in black), even though the Southern never had either. However, my justification is that the FA was a replacement for an RS3 that was out on lease and got wrecked, and the FP45 replaced a SD45 that got wrecked while on the Great Northern. Maybe not historically accurate, but plausible (to me, anyway).

Brad

22

I think everyone has a snob line whether they admit it or not. I think that very few model railroaders wouldn’t cringe at the thought of a guy pulling out a 40 year old Tyco that he won as his first engine off eBay and running it a 70 mph on George Selios’s layout. I outline my prejudices above, but at the end of the day, heck at the end or reading a post, I don’t give it another thought.

You’re right, I don’t have much of a right to be an elitist. However, there are a few conversations that take place on this board that draw definite lines in the sand. Some of these people are very elitist, and maybe even some have a right to be.

But my rookie season is about 3 weeks from being over. Then I enter my apprentice phase. Just one more step closer to being qualified to be an elitist snob. For now, I’ll just be content live and let live and be a closet snob–one with a rather twisted sense of humor.

23

For me, the snob line begins with these words, “You should…”

Umm, no YOU should! I have already done what I should, and here it is!

However, in keeping with the theme, and to be perfectly honest, it is the demarkation between DC and DCC. I have done both, but can’t say I have an extensive history in DC. Yet, what I understand about each of them makes it for me the difference between going back to tube radios or using modern transistors. I give full due and admiration for those who worked out the details to make DC trains run all those years, and believe when I say that I understand your determination/need/desire to keep operating that way. But, I have been seduced by the goddess of the digital world, and am hopelessly, helplessly, and unashamedly in love with her. [:P]

P.S. - snobbishness implies disdain, and I disdain no one. I am too far along in my learning to suffer under the illusion that I am better than anyone else in pretty much any field. I know that some of us pick fights about one road being better than another, or about one loco being better than another, but I cannot recall anyone saying anything suggesting an outright disdain. Maybe I am experiencing another artifact of my age and learning…forgetting. [(-D]

24

I think any purpose served by snobbery could be better served by a little introspection. A snob wants to be better than someone else…why? Short question, long answer.

If you meet the majority of your challenges with the best you have to offer, you soon find out where your limits are, and how those limits compare with other people. When you realize that you are succeeding at every challenge, it may be time to up the ante and look for some harder ones. When you’ve really pushed yourself, beyond anything you ever thought you could pull off, succeed or fail you begin to realize that real satisfaction doesn’t come from compliments or adulation.

Rarely does the perception of others match your own, many times people gush over something you know was easy, many other times people ignore a price you paid for in risk, sweat and pain. In either case, you can’t help thinking a little less of the source, because you know they have it wrong. Only when their perception matches your own does their estimation rise in your eyes, and right there you can see that the important opinion then, is your own.

I’m not in model railroading for a single purpose, I’m in it for as much as I can wring out of it. I have an interest in the old mining operations, of which narrow gauge trains were a critical element. In a perfect world, I could replicate every rivet and spike, and then when it’s all done, step inside the illusion and live there for a while, fight the snow and altitude and rock and water and gravity myself, all without giving up any of my limited time, energy, or treasure. I have yet to find that perfect world, and doubt I ever will, but that doesn’t stop me from choosing to spend a certain amount of time, energy, and effort towards making my little patch of illusion just a little bit closer to that reality I’ll never see. That makes me a rivet counter today, for a few hours anyway, but I’m under no obligation to be a rivet counter all the time, to the exclusion of all else, just because I

25

BINGO!

My persepctive exactly!

There are as many different ways to enjoy this hobby as there are people participating in it. What I di is right for me. Hopefully, what you do is right for [/]you.

The only thing that bugs me is when someone else gets rather haughty about it and comes across as if their[/i] way of modeling is the best (or only) way to model.

26

Roundy-Round:

If Roundy-round was so great; why is it that the members of the club (during a show) get so bored with setting there running the trains for 12 hours at a time. They are doing what they like (roundy-round – watching it run through the scenery) and they can change to other trains (as we have a number of passing sidings with complete trains ready to go), BUT when they come to one of my 12 hr OPTUDs (OP Till U Drop) sessions I can’t get then to leave! And these are the same people! Pretty much says it all!

And reading the articles in the model magazines and notes here on the net there are more and more modelers stating that they have torn down their old layout and are building a new one, Why? Bored with the old one if the truth be known. (come to find out most of these are roundy-round layouts)!

As for counting rivets:

This is one thing I can not get into. If it is a diesel then it is OK. On my layout I am trying to do the time from 1975 to 1985 but at my bi-weekly Ops several of the operators bring in the GEVO’s and they operate right along side my U28s. And on occasion there is a Steam Engine that makes a pass, but not often!

Yes I am trying to build a prototypical layout and have used the CR track maps to layout the towns. There are some liberties been taken and even some fictitious things on the layout just to trip up the rivet counters that come and visit!

Weathering:

Now that is a real subject! I have begun to do some, mostly out of necessity as I may have dropped a car and glued it back together but don’t want to repaint it. So the weathering is just covering up the bad spots. (you might want to look at some of these things when you visit other layouts just to check to see if they do the same)!!

DC/DCC:

This is something I will push forever, DCC that is, (unless you are a confirmed roundy-rounder – but then I have converted a few).

I went the multi walk-around

27

Jeff,

You hit the nail on the head.

My point is that if you are aware of your predjudices, you can compensate for them and live and let live. Everyone has something that bugs them. Either you can express it everytime it shows its face or you can see it coming and deal with it in a more positive fashion.

Good answer Jeff. Good answer.

28

[#ditto]

Basically this, the reasons that I have the train equipment that I have and the way I run them are for my personal enjoyment, whatever that may be. If you don’t like it, then you can just leave my house.

“My kids like nothing better than to see long trains racing round and round the layout. They could care less if it’s Thomas the Tank, an old time Baldwin, or a GP-38 pulling the load, but seeing them smile and hearing them laugh makes my day. If they learn a little something in the process, so much the better.”

I think the kids got it right.

My persoanl layout is th

29

I don’t think anyone will admit to being a rivet counter.
Absolutely! Been there in my younger days and was proud of being arrogant and looking down on uninformed slobs!.[:(!][xx(]

Are you an ops guy that looks down on roundy-rounders?
Not really but,feel they are missing one of the great parts of the hobby.

Do hate anyone who thinks a layout can exist without staging.

Nope…Staging can be done by using a working yard…After all you make up new trains.

Do you not understand why anyone would want to leave their engine squeeky clean?
Yes…Its called collector value in todays limited production world.

Do you think DC/DCC is for the birds?
Nope.Still a choice one must make.

Do you skoof at 40’ boxcars on a 1900’s layout?

Well,I will not chuckle until I leave the area.I do believe in staying era correct unless its a club or a known operating collector.

30

Is the rookie season really ever over? Wait until CRS kicks in (Can’t Remember Stuff). At least every day is a new adventure.

Each of us has our own point of view, interests and understanding; whether you have 11 and half months in or 36 plus years we have our own preferences. The “snob” has the “my way or the highway” attitude that limits his/her ability to learn something new or refining a method that he/she already uses. The “snob” shows up to work everyday doing what is always done without a care for the quality of the job being done, and then wonders why the job is now being done in China or India better for less money.

I still have my “druthers”, but I understand the limits of my space, talents, and funds. Why not give others the same credit for their limits, and invite them to press the envelope, look at alternatives, take more time to evaluate or research their approach.

Mouse keep stirring the pot, you have learned much and have asked thought provoking questions that in discussions like these teach all of us to think out side of the box and define our own “standards”. I am sure they are helping you to work through the obstacles you have encountered in the journey, and the solutions arrived at that make the trip worth while.

Finally, remember the “mistletoe”, but beware of those who make too much use of its presence.
Will

31

I never met a model railroad that I didn’t like and that extends all the way down to the wooden consists that toddlers pull along the floor.

I may be thinking to myself of ways to improve the layout while I’m looking at it but I still like 'em.

Bill

32

Interesting Topic.

Re: Operations vs. Roundy-round. Isn’t there room for both? [4:-)][tup]

I like the idea of switching a yard and servicing industrial customers while thru freights and passenger expresses cruise on long distance journeys. It’s also fun to assign locomotives to runs based on horsepower requirements of the job.

My layout will feature a double track mainline loop with an engine servicing facility and several industries. Though I’m using the “Along the Wall” construction, I got this idea from the 4’x8’ layout featured in an Atlas layout planning book. [;)]

To me it’s the best of both worlds.[:D]

33

That’s why it’s my house, my benchwork, my track and my trains.

34

I make it a point not to criticize anyone’s layout unless it’s horribly done (and it has to be really bad) or is done in bad taste (like the guy with the model houses on the layout with the blue tarps on the roof) …I too do not use staging track because I think all the trains should be visible…I don’t do shelf layouts, and I run different equipment from different time periods within reason…different strokes for different folks…snobbery?..well they can hang together and have there own little party and i’ll hang with the ones that don’t have that problem…chuck

35

Originally posted by SpaceMouse
Mouseman, my comments in blue[:o)]

I don’t think anyone will admit to being a rivet counter.
No way, as all my stuff is freelanced or downright made up [;)]

Are you an ops guy that looks down on roundy-rounders?
Both, my layout is a point to point that has a loop woven in the middle of it[^]

Do hate anyone who thinks a layout can exist without staging.
No, on most narrow gauge shortlines or trams like mine their were no large “yards”, staging or otherwise, ops means dealing with whatever cars are on the layout [8)]

Do you not understand why anyone would want to leave their engine squeeky clean?
I guess, heck in my scale there those that never even take them out of the box! They just hold them and mutter “My Precious…” personally they dont look real till there dirty[:0]

Do you think DC/DCC is for the birds?
Analog myself, DCC is fine, if you can afford it, personally my layout is too small, only one person ops so far, to consider DCC, maybe if its ever busy enough for more than one engineer, I’ll consider it.[8)]

Do you skoof at 40’ boxcars on a 1900’s layout?
I dont know, would you skoof at my 20’ boxcars? or my 12’ cars on my 1950 layout?[:D]

Personally, I have trouble running my 1910’s Shay and Heisler on my 1885 layout. I can do it for short periods of tie then I have to put it back in the box.
Backdate them!

Replace the steel cabs in the wooden style, replace the stacks for a woodburner , provide an 1880’s box headlights. These engines existed back then, you could easliy take them ba

36

Where I draw the line with people is when they come across as they think they know what they are talking about but really they don’t have a clue. I get this at shows a lot when I’m running trains. Other then that I like everybody, rivet counters, ops guys, roundy rounders, etc. I can learn a lot from them all.

37

My new layout is a semi modern era. F’s to AC’s. There are still a lot of scenic lines running steam excursion trains so I will have these too. If I had a Shay or Heisler they would NOT live in their boxes. My layout is soley for my own self indulgents. So poop on anyone that don’t like it!

38

Spacemouse- when you say roundy-rounders. Are you talking about the layout or the waistline? LOL [:D]

39

Well, with my bifocals it’s not as easy to count rivets as it used to be, so I’ve given up on that.

I have to admit that I roundy-round, but it also takes a long time to get around my layout, and the scenery’s changing every few feet, so I can handle that.

I’m still planning staging, but I’m also still negotiating for the other 1/4 of the garge to do so. Yes, there WILL be staging, but only eventually.

I model the WWII era, just bought a Rio Grande automobile car (do you know how HARD they are to find, these days?) and when I got it home, realized that the builder’s date on the reporting marks said 1953. HORRORS!!
Heck with it, I kept it.

Run Rio Grande steam. Okay, so what’s a J-1a doing pulling one of my freights? And why are my Missabe Road 2-8-8-4’s lettered for Rio Grande in the 3900 series? BECAUSE, that’s why! And what’s Rio Grande doing running through the northern California Sierra’s? BECAUSE, that’s why!!

I’m a professional classical musician. I save my ‘snob quotient’ for that. I just have FUN with my trains.

Tom

[:P][:P][:P]

40

I’m a prototype modeler. The term “rivet counter” is a derrogatory term used by people who don’t understand us.

Ops and loop layouts aren’t mutually exclusive. My last layout (and new one in planning) was a three deck point to point with continuous runnin gon the top level. Sometimes you just want to watch trains run, so on any of my layouts, continuous running is a must. Frankly, I can’t understand some modelers who build gigantic point to points, and who then don’t run them themselves! (and that’s pretty common among the “serious” ops guys)

No, but I do think that staging is pretty important on a layout. More important than an on-layout yard, in fact.

[quote]
QUOTE:
Do you not understand why anyone would want to leave their engine squeeky clean?

[quote]
QUOTE:
I understand it. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it.

DC. Now that I’ve run DCC with sound, I’ll never go back to rat’s nest wiring and “who’s got my train!” nonesence.

If a modeler says “I’m modeling 1908”, he’s just opened the door for constructive criticism regarding what’s NOT from the 1908 period. If he says “I’m trying to model 1908”, he’s asking for help in identifying what’s right on his layout. If he says “I like old trains”, I shut up and enjoy what he’s created.