mpzpw3, the train market today is far more diverse, complicated and competitive than it has ever been. Just as the train buying market is more diverse and even opinionated due to the many internet forums that cater to model trains. But in a nutshell as far as three rail trains, higher end stuff DOES NOT sell better… traditionally sized train do. And the companies all make more profit from those traditionally sized items too. I’ve hear from people in the companies personally. The traditional stuff is also made in larger more substantial quantities.
The high end stuff is typically low runs, and in many cases ends up being blown out. Although tere are certainly blowouts on all sorts of train products, I have noticed a very distinct trend from watching the train magazines towards the high end in the blow out department.
The typical high end buyer may spend more money on trains, and make larger purchases. But more than one train hobby shop owner has told me it is the traditional buyer that is the bread and butter of their business.
MTH has unquestionably focused more on the scale high end. They also do half the business Lionel does. And though there are a variety of reasons for this, the truth is there are far more hobbiests who can spend $100-$200 for a locomotive than there are those who can spend $600-$1000 for a locomotive. Nevermind having the space for locomotives that require 54 inch or 72 inch minimum diameter curves. The train companies know (even though sometimes they act like they don’t) that making locomotives that negotiate a 31 inch diameter curve will bring far more sales. That was part of K-Line’s high end appeal, that many of their upper end products were designed to operate on 031 curves.
The UMD Industrial Rail train cars sold well, and even better when the prices got reduced. K-Line’s Train-19 cars sold well… I never once have actually seen the Conrail box car at a train shop… I was always told it was a good seller, was sold out and more were on the
Brianel027,
I used to think that it was my imagination but MTH is getting too expensive for the average operator to afford.
At Ready To Roll in Miami FL they have MTH locomotives starting at $375.00 and going up $1200.00, over $1200 for the U.P. Big Boy steam engine. Most of their frieght cars are $45.00 and up! So how is a company that caters to high end market going to stay in business in today’s market?
This is my two cents on today’s Lionel “Lets get some quality back into the line!” Have you used the O gauge switches by Lionel is my point, had to replace all my Lionel O gauge switches made in the last 12 years(not talking about Fastrac). I bought a low priced GP-7 (paid $125.00)by Lionel about 12 years ago and it would not pull more than four quad hoppers, was using a post war ZW with just that engine getting any power.
So when the lawsuit with Lionel & MTH is over we will see who wins!!
Personally I prefer Williams trains, don’t need all that high tech stuff just to run them.
Lee F.
Personally, I don’t see what the concern is… if MTH does not want to make anything in my price range, that’s fine! I have plenty to chose from in Lionel/K-line, Atlas IR, Williams, and RMT. I used to buy semi-scale from MTH a long time ago, but I got the message years ago that MTH wasn’t interested in us traditional 027 guys.
After many years in 3 rail O gauge, searching out smaller “traditional” sized engines and rolling stock, I switched to S gauge. In the last few years it just seemed all manufacturers were pushing scale sized equipment, and raising prices out of reach of my pocketbook. At a local trainshow this year I took notice of an S gauge layout. Just looked right to me. The smaller size fit in with my available space. American Models and S Helper make some nice models that are to scale. Lots of American Flyer still out there too. I’ve bought several AF items on e-bay, inexpensive and really great detail on the older stuff from the 50’s. And the 50’s sound systems are great. Super smoke units too.
Lee, I’m with Santa Fe Kent on MTH… they don’t want our business, but there are plenty of others who do.
I use 027 track and despite some complaints on the modern post MPC designed switches, I’ve had minimal trouble with them. I do make major changes to the “footprint” size, cutting away the entire base making the “footprint” literally the size of the track only. Once in a while I have to grind down a point or make some kind of small modification, but given the price of the Lionel 027 manual switches, I won’t complain. The 0-gauge switch did get a total re-design at one point and those turned out to be total flops so the older postwar style was brough back.
On the point of the low end Lionel locos, they’ve all been cataloged for the past decade as coming with a single motor (save for one top line version in every cataloged that is advertised with dual motors). The single motored ones include GEEPs, U-Boats and RS-3’s. The trouble is that there is some miscommunication between departments at Lionel and some of those locos that are cataloged with a single motor actually come with dual motors. The Ontario Northland RS-3, the WP U36-B and the CSX U36B all had dual motors despite catalogs saying the opposite.
My advice on these locos is to not preorder or mailorder and to wait until they come out and actually see what the loco box end flap says. Or to open the box and take a quick look for yourself. The single motor diesels (with truck mounted can motors) are notoriously poor pullers and won’t do much more than you say… even adding weight doesn’t help much on these. On the other hand, adding weight to the mid-1990’s vintage Industrial Switchers and the cheaper DC powered plastic bodied steamers improves their pulling power immensely. I can easily pull 20 cars with my revamped Industrial Switchers and small steamers.
Lionel should absolutely drop those single motored diesels ASAP… they’re bad advertising for quality of the pro
Since having problems with the Lionel switches in O gauge I have gone to Gargraves track and switches and have almost no problems with the switches. Just could not get a Lionel 6-23010 or 6-23011 switch to work right for more than a week after they got to two years of age, also had terrible problems trying to run a Williams locomotive thru those switches.
About 027 switches, I have been using a pair of 027 switches on one of my mainlines and have wired them together to switch the tracks as the locomotive goes thru the switch the corresponding switch also throws to allow the locomotive to return to the same track, tied the two switchable wires together with 16 gauge two conducter wire.
Lee F.
I find the over all selection for O engines, locomitves and rollingstock has never been better. You can find just about what ever you want in any price level. Williams even make some very nice rolling stock at prices below the Rugged Rail trim level.
If you want detail then you will have to pay more but the price range for a good engine spans from $100 to $1,000 just pick the level of detail you want. I like Williams because it reminds me of my youth with both the construction and operation of their trains. However with that said I have Lionel, MTH and even Atlas trains.
So if you are looking for the lower priced trains just expand your search to other manufactures. I just don’t get hung up on who the manufacture is or what they are currently producing. I don’t think it is a big concern what MTH does with their Rugged Rail line since there are other good options.
PS: JUST NOTE WILLIAMS TRAINS RUN JUST FINE ON LIONEL FAST TRACK SWITCHES. I have never run them on the older style that philly mentioned though.
I have given up on being brand loyal anymore, used to like Lionel only about 17 years ago but now will buy who ever has a good product at a decent price.
Renovo PRR, be glad that you don’t have the 6-23010 series O gauge switch or you may get tempted to use it for target practice, I could not get a Williams locomotive to go thru one of those switches even when both were brand new! I can not afford Fastrac so I don’t know about Fastrac and Williams locomotives.
As far as Weaver Trains I can not run them mixed with any Lionel compatible couplers, so I run them seperate or put them on the display shelf.
Lee F.
I stopped being brand loyal years ago. I buy what I like and what I think offeres the best value to me. Fast Track can get expensive when you need more than a few switches. However for me I liked it better than the old 0-27 track.
One thing I forgot to ask. Why is it important that MTH do anything with Rugged Rails? It appears to be a very crowded market.
One thing about MTH and that is they make more than just one road number per car; example FEC Trinity 100 ton hoppers have two differant road numbers like 15380 & 15383(not real numbers for MTH).
Fastrac stopped me dead in my tracks when I heard what a pair of switches cost, $180.00 or better with tax.
I have added extra ties under the tubular track from 3R Plastics and the track looks much better.
Lee F.