Thanks guys for making my point…Once the "no more kits " doom and gloom sayers get started they go into a frenzy and even after seeing what is available they keep cranking out false information…What does it take for these folks to see KITS ARE AVAILABLE? Brunton points out the lack of LL Time Saver kits but,fails to mention the superior Branchline or Intermountain kits…[:0] nor does anybody mention the hundreds of kits available on e bay.
The sad part is people doesn’t look to see what is readily available before crying oh woe,woe no more kits! [:0][8][B)][V]
Now if your local hobby dealer is LYING to you about the lack of kits I highly suggest finding a new dealer.
Guys,RTR is not evil,its here to stay…Get use to it.
BTW…Only the fool hardy pays full MSRP these days.
Actually, BRAKIE, I pointed out the lack of **non-**Timesaver kits.
I model the 30s and 40s. The Walthers tank cars and P2K tank cars were common in that era, and with major industries on my layout being petroleum-related, I need a lot of those. I haven’t seen Branchline or Intermountain kits for 8000 and 10,000 gallon type 21 tank cars - did I miss them somehow? If so, I’d really like to know!!
Who would have thought that a discussion of unavailability of some of the more well-known rolling stock kits would be a hot-button topic to some folks?![%-)]
Interesting question - we still have large numbers of non-shake the box kits over here - in fact, something like the Athearn or other pre-printed and painted kits has always been most unusual. I think Triang may have offered some of their models in kit form (basically the RTR model but as a pile of parts) and there’s a company named Southern Pride that offers passenger car kits with preprinted sides, but apart from that it’s still a case of buying the kit, buying wheels and bearings (in some cases) and sourcing decals for it.
I’ve accumulated a couple of hundred kits that I’m going to build any time now. So I haven’t noticed much of a shortage. Don’t forget the customizers like Bev-Bel. They take basic kits, custom paint them and really expand the selection available a lot.
I highly recommend Athearn Genesis kits. If you really want a kit that takes hours to build get one of these. You even get to paint them and add your own decals.
What about the MDC kits? On the Athearn site it seems like all the kits are original Athearn products. The MDC models are sold as RTR only. At one time the MDC product line was second only to Athearn. Has anyone heard if Horizon plans to offer them in kit form in the future? I am referring to the modern stuff, not the older stuff being sold under the Roundhouse brand.
Life Like made THOUSANDS of the tank and Mathers cars kits. Most modelers are scared of kits with more than twelve parts, so they sat around. Distributors and LHS owners complained, and LL came out with the “Timesaver” series of kits. They sell better than the full kits, so LL continued to crank them out only. The older full kits are available everywhere, at rock-bottom prices. I’m seeing 10K tank kits on Ebay now for $5.99 (and no one’s buying them). I regularly see the Mathers stock cars (which HAS to be one of the simpler kits out there!) at swaps for $2!
So you can still get the non-timesaver kits, if you dig around a little. And what do you have against the Timesavers anyway? At least they’re still kits, and still light years more difficult than Blue Boxes?
Tank cars came in a much wider variety than just those two P2K cars. I know; I populated my old layout with nothing but them (they were the only quality tank available for a long time) and got taken to task by some of the leading modelers in the country. I’ve since varied my tank fleet a LOT.
Branchline doesn’t have a tank car kit in their catalog: Intermountain, Red Caboose and Sunshine do. Between these three manufacturers, there are more than 30 different tanks available (mostly Sunshine resin kits).
And yes, Intermountain still does make kits. Undec only, but at least they still support the kitbuilders in the hobby.
??? Tichy kits are no harder to build than any other of the high-end styrene kits like Red Caboose and Intermountain. I’ve built at least one of each of their car kits (usually more) and all in all, they’re dreams to assemble. Of course, you have to paint them, but big deal; I’ve got to repaint virtually all of my steam anyway.
By some manufacturers, because those manufacturers have decided that their profitability lays with RTR. And they’re probably right: how many of us can remember going to a LHS in the past and seeing kits that have been sitting on the shelves so long that they’ve got dust on them?
And so what if “some” manufacturers aren’t supporting kits (actually, the only one I can think of that has ZERO freight car kits is Atlas). We do have choices, and there are still plenty of manufacturers who offer ZERO RTR cars. Ever hear of resin?
Look; I don’t like the fact that so many modelers are cranking out layouts which require no modeling skills. Frankly, I don’t consider them to be modelers. But so what? They’re enjoying themselves. I’m enjoying myself too, with my mix of RTR, kit, and scratch. Same goes with manufacturers: if someone doesn’t support kits, just buy from someone who does.
(oh, and after building one of the P2K tanks, I bought the rest of my 30+ as RTR; they’re beautiful cars, but are a real PITA to build. They’re harder than most resin cars)
(and finally, I don’t mean to sound like an a55, but isn’t that P2K 0-6-0 in your photo RTR?)
RTR for me means Ready To Re-engineer. Gotta add weight here and there, swap out the crappy plastic couplers with Kadees.
Does anyone have the 3 car intermadal stack cars from Walthers that has the plastic draw bars? I have broken mine already picking the thing up. I have access to a machine shop and I had the guys use a water jet machine to cut out some more draw bars out of 14 guage black iron. I just had to file them down a bit and paint them. No more broken draw bars.
Kits dead? Nope, just price inflated and called RTR instead.
Jim,It is my understanding that MDC cars will be available as RTR first then kits later…Why I have no idea unless its the current RTR market…Also note that some of the BB kit road names on the “Railbox” 50’ boxcar comes in the same road names.as RTR cars…Then we have the 5344 boxcar which use to come in kits and these kits are still available if one looks for them…Athearn shows the only 5344 kit in stock is the Sanderville Railroad.
kits are around, just not as plentiful, I remember when kits were everywhere, but people grabbed bb’s instead because red caboose, intermountains, branchlines,were deemed too hard by lots of modelers, price also affected sales, but when someone else built it, the price wasn’t a problem, call it a skill, time, ability thing. bottomline is if your lhs doesn’t have kits, see if he’ll order them, if he won’t, tell him you’ll gladly spend your money elsewhere
Here we go again. Search kits on Ebay. Last time I did I came up with over 5,000 entries in HO alone. I have over six boxes full of kits at the moment and I continue to buy them at a rate that is faster than I can build em’. Most serious modelers will tell you the same thing. All the train guys I know have more kits than I do. Opening a small hobby shop would be easy for these guys. Whether the production of kits is waning, I’m not sure. If they quit making them tomorrow there would stil be enough of whats been made floating around for to last for many years. One craftsman kit maker tells me he has a theory that no one is building the kits anyway. They just get passed back and forth between modelers.
As usual in these discussions I ask how many actually BUILD these kits that are allegedly disappearing??? P2K tank cars…I built a lot of the old style. Timesaver here might not be a bad idea. Intermountain tank cars…Try and get those cut levers on with out swearing…P2K Mather stock cars …Do you really want to cut out 25 separate grabs and glue em’ on one at a time??? While I actually enjoy building these cars this stuff might get tedious if I needed say 30 tank cars or a 40 car reefer train…
I find that in building a medium sized empire like I am now, that I have to delegate my time and go with good enough in some areas in order to get the layout up and running. RTR can help that a little. I certainly can’t complain about P2K stock cars RTR at $7.00 each and lots of other deals on Ebay over the years…
Brunton: I have bought more non time saver P2K tank cars on Ebay than I can shake a stick at. You should be able to find all the old style (non time saver kits) you want there if you watch for a few weeks. And mostly for cheap if you shop well. The P2K category has around 800 listings on any given day. Check it out, I’m sure you can find what you’re looking for…
Thanks for all the comments guys. I now realize the issue might be somewhat regional. Where I live in Minnesota is at least 60 miles from the nearest GOOD shop. Boss at work is good enough to let us surf the Web on our breaks, whichi I’m on now, but we can’t buy using company computers, so Ebay is out for now. I’ll just keep my eyes open for the bargains some of you are obviously finding at the rare shows we have near home. Unfortunately, though, that means pretty much settling for whatever is already released and in those roadnames. I guess that is incentive to take those undecorated kits, do some kitbashing, painting and lettering!
That makes it harder to find kits and get the better deals…However…There is a solution.every month in RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN Toy Train Heaven runs a very large 3-5 page ad in which they also list kits…The prices is very reasonable and TTH has great customer service.Also check the ads in MR…
Lots of good points, everyone! And some great suggestions for where to find some of the kits I favor. Thanks!
I have checked e-bay, though not too often, for the P2K old-style kits. I haven’t found the bargains some guys mentioned, but I’ll check more often. At shows I do occasionally find a few kits at a decent price and I pick them up when I do.
Orsonroy - yes that is an RTR Heritage 0-6-0 in the picture. I have two of them, an RTR Heritage 0-8-0, and three BLI RTR Heavy Mikados. I have a few brass locos as well. One of these days when time permits, I’ll tackle a Bowser loco kit, but I’m grateful for the good RTR plastic steam out there. Cars is a different matter - I don’t want RTR; I want relatively inexpensive kits. Even with the Accurail kits (some of the least expensive I buy any more), by the time I add sprung trucks and couplers, I’ve spent $15-$20.
Am I inconsistent in how I look at locos vs. how I look at rolling stock? I guess so. Is that bad? Well, it doesn’t bother me - that’s just my preferences.
Orsonroy (again) - I know there is a great variety of tank cars out there, and the P2K (and the earlier Walthers kits) represented only one type. But I remember seeing long lines of those type of cars, all black, waiting their turns at the loading racks at the refineries in Casper, WY. Since that’s the region I model, those are the cars I need to fulfill my basement-sized nostalgia trip back to my childhood. But I certainly will check out some of the other manufacturers, especially Sunshine. Thanks for the great tip!
I don’t begrudge the RTR crowd their products or their pleasures, and as time marches on and my layout progresses, I may even join their ranks in order to populate my layout with the proper fleet of cars. But I hope we don’t see more RTR at the expense of the kit market - I hope any expanded RTR offerings will be in addition to kit production.
I’m really enjoying this discussion, everybody! Thanks to a
Glad to see that the posts in this forum are taking a happier tone than from the start. It’s night and day to the postings answering piccolotess’ questions.
cmeastern, by all means find a way to get the internet at home. While I try to support my LHS’s there are some things I buy on line.