Which has had the larger and more positive, long term impact on growing our hobby? Thomas or the World’s Greatest Hobby program?
I think Thomas wins by a length. Why? Because Thomas has touched the youngsters, planting seeds that will grow. It seems to me that WGH has cultivated and fertilized the existing hobbists more than it has reached the youngsters. Both programs successful and valuable, but they achieved different things.
Just my 2 cents, what do you think?
Joe
Thomas wins by a mile. The World’s Greatest Hobby program was largely preaching to the choir. Thomas has helped develop a whole new interest in trains among young people. I know, my little nieces and nephews always want to know where Thomas is when I sent pictures of the layout. [:)]
Without trying to sound down right cold, I must say that in spite of the often seen claim that Thomas will have some sort of major future impact on the number of scale modelers, I fail to see any demonstrable tie-in whatever.
The great majority of those of us in the hobby today were influenced toward that end by having semi-realistic looking electric trains (Lionel, Flyer, Marx) as young boys at perhaps ages 6 to 14. There was also the undercurrent of being in control of what in the real world were huge and powerful machines…we were playing adult. Further, many of us saw the prototype in daily action and even rode on real trains to one extent or another far more often than today.
Now try to look objectively at Thomas. Thomas’ appeal is to the pre-K child. In most cases it is largely a European-styled wooden push toy. It is based on a mythical, essentially TV cartoon character, that in no way resembles any American locomotive nor conveys any air of reality (do trains really converse and have eyes, noses and mouths?). Even a ride behind a 1:1 scale version of Thomas is likely to occur no more than a few times in a very young child’s life and can not realistically be considered an important, life long influencing event. It’s like claiming that playing with Sponge Bob or Nemo figures as a child will result in a fascination with saltwater aquariums as an adult.
The concept of Thomas as a major influence and source of future scale model railroaders is just totally unsubstantiated speculation and I would challenge anyone to show factual evidence of an actual major association between it and scale model railroading. In reality, I’m afraid, we are simply seeing such situations and associations through highly biased eyes, perceiving important relationships where none exist simply because of our own personal interests.
Now WGH, that’s quite something else and if you&nbs
I only know of one modeler (out of hundreds) that has been touched in any way by WGH, and he’s a member of the NMRA BOD. On the other hand, I don’t know of a single child in my extended family (20 as of today) that HASN’T been influenced by Thomas in one way or another. Of the 20, at least two should be full-fledged modelers by the time they’re ten, thanks to their interest being kindled by Thomas, and fueled by “uncle Ray and his trains”.
I fail to see ANY point in WGH; local clubs and NMRA divisions do everything it tries to. However, Thomas is probably the best marketing tool this hobby has seen since the 1960s. I just pray that the debacle with Chinese toy recalls doesn’t bite into the fanbase too badly.
I must respectfully disagree with my esteemed colleague CNJ831.
The fact is, everything around us, our environment, influence our decisions. Thomas is still relatively new, I think if you ask the 30 and 40 something modelers in 20 to 30 years, they will say that Thomas had some influence. While it may not be the deciding factor, it definately moves kids towards an INTEREST in trains, fantasy or otherwise.
Why is it that I model a RR that I never saw and was gone before I was 8 years old? One picture on a magazine cover is all it took. Images are powerful.
Kids like Thomas, parents buy the wooden push toys, then they buy electric train sets because the kids are still enthralled with trains. Now we are right back to where most of us started, train sets of real (or close approximation of) trains.
Rick
If you take an international perspective I think Thomas will win because the the TV programs are broadcasted in many countries while “World’s Greatest Hobby” is something you don’t see anywhere outside the US (as far as I know).
But considering that model railroading seems to be much more widespread in the US than in my country (Sweden) the “World’s Greatest Hobby” will probably have a great deal to do with the hobby’s success in US.
It is not enough to awake an interest but it must be nourished and to do that all activities that are making the hobby visible is needed and welcome.
I must also disagree with CNJ. I have no hard data, just the reactions of my young nieces and nephews. They all know Thomas, they all know he’s a train, and runs on tracks. Sure, the mouth and eyes thing might seem a little hokey but I remember my cattle unloading car and exploding missle boxcars when I was a kid. That didn’t stop me from developing an interest model railroading. I’m actually more concerned that prototype railroading might not hold the interest of young people as when I was a kid. There were lots of different kinds of locomotives, freight cars, and cabooses, not to mention a heck of a lot more railroads. Now, there’s mostly the same machine shops on wheels we call locomotives, the same stack and intermodal trains, and a FRED. It was my interest in prototype trains that stimulated me to get into scale modeling once I realized that cattle didn’t circulate endlessly in and out of a stock car. [:)]
I must be odd man out.[;)]
I agree with CNJ for what he says, about Thomas, as of today.
I disagree with CNJ for what he says about the WGH program, and I’m an NMRA Lifer.
Reasons; Thomas is a relatively “recent” development as a toy available with a loco, cars, track, power source, etc in a set. Thomas hasn’t “been on the market” in this country long enough to really judge its impact. I believe that in 20-25 years, when these “Thomas Kids” grow up, we’ll know the true impact, but not right now.
The WGH, on the other hand, has seemed to limit itself to certain cities, which also limits itself to the number of people it can reach. No matter how good WGH is or is not, if you’re not exposing the hobby to the greater number of the public that don’t live in the cities where WGH has limited itself, you will in the long run defeat the purpose of the program.
I have a strange sense of foreboding about the future of this thread. I hope my intuition is wrong.
Still, there can be no doubt that Thomas has a current influence on the health of the hobby, although I am unable to suggest that it will be a lasting phenomenon. It might get a run of 40 years, maybe two full generations…who knows. My kids grew up with Bugs Bunny, but they also watched The Smurfs and other period cartoons. Now kids watch God knows what. Things change, are replaced, supplanted, and become quaint over time. Thomas will be relegated to the same status as Tyco and other former MRR fare of yesteryear. So, in the grand scheme of things, Thomas probably has a lot of currency and clout with respect to getting some new faces in the door. It has been helped by mass media. Whatever replaces Thomas will have its own appeal and advantages brought about by technology. On a holodeck, maybe.
Around these parts, the WGH is known only because we see mention of it in the MRR press - aside from that, I haven’t a clue what it’s about nor even witnessed any evidence of it.
I have a couple nephews who just love trains AND they have the Thomas stuff as well - but to them, they are two different things. There are similar cross-overs, kinda like playing with Hot Wheels and liking real cars. They never say they want to build a Thomas empire someday.
As I’m sure a lot of us had when we were young, was an exposure to real trains. It’s those huge engines and long trains that left an indelible mark on our brains that we want in ernest to bring back to life - turn back the clock if you will. We as human beings have cherished memories that we would give anything to relive again, whether it was last week, last year, ten or fifty years ago. I can’t see Thomas creating the types of memories to be rekindled later as a model railroader - a child needs to be exposed to the real deal. A train ride at a tourist site, up close and personal will instill a much stronger facination for trains than pushing some over-hyped wooden toy around the floor (sorry).
So far, this topic seems to be geared to influencing the youth and younger even in terms of promoting the hobby. Allow me to take a different approach … what about an impact on the growing number of people who are finally settled enough in life to WANT to build a model railroad ??? What has the biggest impact on these people ??? Well, there’s already the interest to want a model railroad, so the seed was already planted at some time in their life. So, for the budding model railroader, I’d say the biggest impact is how much is available READY-TO-RUN.
Never in the history of our hobby have we witnessed as many things RTR - engines, cars, buildings and even complete layouts !!! THIS is having the biggest impact for how many folks are getting into model trains … ask any hobby shop owner where all the bucks are bein
Not to nit-pick, but your question should have been “What MAY have the biggest impact on the FUTURE growth of the hobby?” (assuming there WILL be future growth).
I personally think it will be the same thing as it was in the past…parents putting a train that runs under the Christmas tree. Lionel’s Polar Express may rank high in this regard. Perhaps Thomas is looked on more as a “toy” for little kids…something to be outgrown. A more realistic train with some simple scenics under the tree becomes more of a “tradition”, which MAY evolve into a hobby. Joe
I’ll vote neither. I think kids (and adults) watching REAL trains in action does more to promote the hobby. That’s what got me started.
Kids playing with trains. Doesn’t matter what kind it is. Some of those kids with Thomas will wait 60 years and then get into the hobby. Some in less time. Some never. It’s the exposure to trains as something the individual can play with, control, etc. that will encourage them later on to enter the model railroading hobby. Add in some model building in their pre teen years, any kind, and you’ll have 'em.
Enjoy
Paul
Folks, before we run into endless pages of posts citing personal opinions and anecdotes, please allow me to point out something that so often seems to escape posters here: baseless personal opinion is not the same thing as demonstrable fact. Likewise, if an opinion is offered by someone who is already highly biased toward a point of view, it honestly can carry no real weight, nor likely have much validity. We can all have our own personal outlooks on things but that doesn’t establish their accuracy or validity, only facts can.
Let me also point out that exposure to Thomas in America is by no means a very recent phenomenon. The TV show Shining Time Station, which featured Thomas episodes, was running on local PBS stations back as far as 1989, almost 20 years ago. If, in fact, Thomas produces any sort of leanings toward becoming a scale model railroader amongst its viewers, we should certainly be seeing some evidence of that in our hobby by now in youths approaching their early 20’s. Therefore, it might be appropriate and enlightening to ask just how many teens here on the forum can honestly claim that the bulk of their interest in the hobby directly sprang from watching Thomas on TV or playing with show-related toys and not some other logical source, like a hobbyist relative or conventional tin-plate trains under the Christmas tree? Now that would be a telling bit of information.
CNJ831
My 5-year-old has already outgrown Thomas. But he is completely obsessed with trains. My younger one, who turns 3 this winter, still loves Thomas. But I’m beginning to doubt that Thomas is why they love trains.
They’re exposed to trains through me; they go with me railfanning, to train shows, to train museums, and to operate my layout.
My opinion is that the young ones who will enter the hobby will do so because someone close to them has “apprenticed” them. As my father brought me into the hobby, I’m doing the same with my boys. Maybe neither will take to it long-term, but I’m guessing the older boy, whose personality is exactly like mine in every way, has a good chance of being a model railroader.
Continued exposure to trains in every form by someone close is probably the key to “hooking” young people. Otherwise, I’m not sure memories of Thomas toys and videos as a child is enough to compete with the firestorm of distractions sprayed at children these days.
EDIT: I was an enthusiastic supporter of the WGH program at first (I even got my “ambassador” kit), but I haven’t really understood it. I like that they have the WGH shows, and the little flyers they make up are pretty nice, but I’m not sure I know what my role in WGH is. Am I really supposed to lock my co-workers in a room and show them a video of Michael Gross talking about trains?
I don’t know that WGH grew out of industry desperation as some may argue, but I don’t know that it’s any more effective than what we hobbyists were doing on our own to recruit. I still feel that the new products and new manufacturers appearing each month bodes well at least for the short term health of the hobby.
As far as ‘Impact’ goes, I have no idea.
As far as ‘Visibility’ goes, all I can say is that the only time I hear about the WGH campaign is in MRR forums like this. On the other hand, Thomas (and friends) has been a well played with toy in my household for years with both my sons. I also see it on TV, in major retail stores, and (sadly) in recent major toy recalls.
So from a visibility standpoint, Thomas is so far above WGH that it’s in a league of its own. From an Impact standpoint, it will be hard to measure, but I think (despite what some of our childhood deprived members might say [;)]) its much higher visibility has to factor into a positive impact to this hobby in some way.
I think Thomas will have about the same impact on the hobby as Barney. Virtually none. It’s too huge a leap from a bland push toy for toddlers to the more compelling and complex aspects of model railroading. I so think that exposure to the real thing - modern railroads - is probably the single biggest interest generator for MR.
It’s probably also true that with abandonments and consolidation, the decline of small rail-served manufacturing industry and the truncation of passenger rail service, that fewer people, especially younger folks in urban or suburban settings, have an exposure to railroads. Therefore I think it’s probably true that the single biggest impact on the hobby is parents introducing and passing it on to their kids. It will probably be ever more important over time.
Well my 2 grandsons been around the hobby since they was old enough to understand papaw has trains…My oldest grandson is a modeler my youngest could care less and would rather play video games.My son never develope a interest in the hobby even though he grew up with model trains in the house…So,like all hobbies one must develop a interest and niether Thomas or the WGH campaign can do that.After all if there is no root a plant can’t grow.
Real trains are large influence with the hobby. Kids are fascinated with those big powerful monsters.
I feel that Thomas may spark some interest in MRR’ing later on. It will be mostly their first Lionel or some other brand train set, like most of us had. Which is the next step, when the pushing the toys around gets old. Some of our grandkids are now wanting the electric trains like grandpa’s.
The WGH program will help spark some interest, but a greater influence of this program, is the train shows and swap meets. Next time you’re at one, watch the eyes of a little ones watching the trains and the fathers holding them up, taking in all there is to see.
As with most folk, the things of child hood will pass, as the interest change in the teenage years, only to be rekindled later on. Perhaps it’ll be mom cleaning out the attic, a train set in the toy department or holding their wide-eyed child at a train show. Perhaps it’ll be just wanting to relive some times of their youth, when trying to figure out why, chocolate cake and ice cream isn’t considered healthy breakfast food
Thomas and his friends by a mile. I go to a lot of train shows with my club or by myself and kids seem to really get a kick out of seeing a Thomas train or one of his friends running on a layout. The kids know who each loco is, mean while I don’t have a clue who is who, lol. Kids identify with what they have seen on TV or where ever. My GO Transit passenger train has almost the same effect. Everybody knows what the GO train is in Ontario so when a kid see’s one running on a layout they can identify with it. Who knows, maybe in 30 years everybody will be running brass Thomas trains, lol.