Which is better? CW80 or old 1033?

Classic Toy Trains Forum
1

I could use some input.

We put up a Polar Express on Christmas, and from moment one the CW80 was acting up. Within an hour or so it eventually died.

My question is: Is it worth the trouble working with a CW80 or should I try and find an older 1033 transformer.

For a simple layout that will only be used for Christmas, I want something reliable. I have a background in electronics, and it seem silly to me to have a complex controller, when an old AC transformer worked just fine. Why did they have to make it “better”.

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

And if you all could have seen the excitment in a 4 year old seeing the PE under the tree. If I could have harnessed that “up and down” energy, I could have heated the house here for the rest of the winter. :wink:

2

COtrain,

Sorry I can’t help because I don’t know about the CW80. I have read over time that others have had trouble with them. I think Lionel should replace it if it’s new. I have one of those transformers still in a box that came with the Polar Express. I have the train on a shelf so I never used the CW80. I have another set on the shelf from a few years ago but I don’t remember which transformer came with it. The set was the Alien train.

I should note that the transformer that came with my 1953 Lionel train set still works. Wouldn’t it be great if everything had that quality.

Good luck with the transformer.
Tom S

3

COtrain,

Would you elaborate on precisely how you hooked the CW-80 up; what if any accessories you hook to the track and how were they connected; exactly how did it “act up from moment one;” what happened just before it died (did some cars derail and cause a short circuit; did the green light blink and dim; did the fan go silent; did smoke escape from the transformer – or what?) Is it now stone cold dead now when you plug it in?

Did you use throttle posts A and U? Did you hook post A to the center track or somewhere else? Did you use the U post directly under the A post?

Did it come with an instruction manual?

Do you have any inkling of what happened? Lastly, there should be a number on the bottom of the CW-80 (four digits) such as 11 05? What does yours say?

Would very much appreciate your thoughts – sorry for your troubles.

wolverine

4

Wolverine…

The hookup is pretty simple. On the back of the CW80 there are two posts marked for Track. (One red, One black). So, just hook up the wire from the track “red to red” and “black to black”. There is also two post for accessories, but I dont have any, so nothing was hooked to those posts.

With power applied, had the green light and lifting the lever and the whistle blew and the train moved foward. The whistle continued to stay on until the “Bell” button was pressed. (That’s not right.) So, a little tape and some box material to hold the button down.

Besides that, it seemed to work fine. However, the 4 year old had a derailment (Of course at the back of the Christmas tree). A short a moment, and that was all. The green light no longer lite. No smoke. (After 25+ years in electronics, I know that smell, and there was none.) Unit was dead cold. No voltage out. I thought maybe an internal circuit breaker tripped, and it would reset in a bit. But, after and hour or so, I figured it should have reset by then.

I would open it up to check it out. However, it has those triangle security screws, plus, I dont want to void the warranty. We have a couple of repair places here in Denver area. So, I might have them look at it.

The date code is 10 04. So, it is over a year old.

As far as a manual, there is not a seperate manual for the contoller. Just info that is in the manual for the Polar Express. And even in that manual, it stated that no “bell” is used, but as I mentioned above, that was the only way to shut off the whistle. So, I think there is likely some wiring issues inside that unit.

Hope that helps.

5

It sounds like your problem was simple to start - the whistle button was stuck “down” or activated. Applying the “bell” button seemed to “cure” the problem, but running it this way caused major problems.

Stuck buttons and/or no tactile feel to the three buttons was an issue with CWs in your range of production. A call to Lionel, it seems, will bring one to you quickly under warranty.

If I’m reading Dale Manquen’s schematic properly for the CW, it looks like you may have blown the internal 8 amp fuse, w/ no fan running. Replacing this fuse, and addressing the button issue should bring the CW back to life, assuming the fuse was designed to save the sensitive circuitry, and it did its job. Let the warranty issues pan out before attempting this, however, and(disclaimer) don’t do it at all if you have even the slightest doubt about your abilities.

Rob

6

Tnx ACDX Rob…

You know, that would make sense.

The buttons for the direction and the bell, felt “normal”, but I did notice that the “whistle” button didn’t seem right when I tried to depress it. There was no movement of the button.

You’re explaination of the circuit makes sense. Since I dont have a schematic of the item, I’ll take your word that what you presented is correct.

I guess I’ll wait till Lionel Customer service folks are back next week and give them a call. See if they either send out a new one, or have be take it to a repair facility.

Thanks for all your input.

7

CO train, I had a similar problem with the Hobo Set last year. I contacted Lionel and they sent out a new CW80 by DHL and it was at my door two days later. They never asked for the old one or even a copy of the receipt. I plan on doing some work on the old one (replacing the fuse with a 8 amp breaker) and seeing if I can use it for accessories. Anyway, try the customer service, they treated me well.
Dennis
PS: Welcome to the forum

8

I know the CW80 has been beaten to death on the forums, and they DID have a “bad batch” a while back, but I’ve been running my 2 loops with 2 CW80’s for almost a year with no problems, and I have a like-new KW sitting in the closet (don’t like its control levers). Joe

9

If the whistle sounded continuously you could also try to swap the wires from the outlet of the transformer. The red one should go to the center rail. I’ve read that a few others had the same whistle problem and it disappeared when swapping the leads to the track.
If you can get hold of a simple AC transformer which regulates voltage by moving across the secondary coil then that is the best for further use. If electronics fry themselves it’s quite easy to repair (most of the time it’s the amplifier which is directly attached to the tracks inside the transformer which is fried, but again, you should smell that)
If you can find a good 1033 it would probably be a better choice since the CW80’s seem like russian roulette to me.

10

COtrain,

Several quick points. There IS a manual for the CW-80 – in fact there are at least two of them which you can find on the Lionel.com website under Customer Service. (There may also be a “partial manual” that came with certain trainsets.) The “full” manuals are better, but also have problems; the most confusing of which are the basic hook-up instructions, where the diagram and the text condradict each other. You can find my suggested pen-and-ink changes on the “other” forum.

Worse yet, if you call Lionel Tech Service it seems to depend on whom you talk to – in my case I was told to connect the throttle post A to the center rail, throttle post U (directly under it) to the outside rail. When you do it the opposite way, the whistle button sounds the bell, and the bell button blows the whistle – when all is working. (Unlike the postwar ZW, for example, the U posts on the CW-80 are NOT a "common ground. If you look it up, the U post on the 1033 is not considered “ground” either, except in certain wiring configurations.)

Other forum members have reported opposite results, but all I can say is that their transformers don’t seem to work as advertised and mine (4) do.

Also, the full manuals, which you can download and print, also differ slightly from each other. Sheesh!

Somewhere I read that pressing a sound button, i.e. blowing a whistle, during a short-circuit is bad news. In your case, possibly, having the one button stuck down (on) and the other “taped down” during your short-circuit blew something – quite possibly the fuse that that ACDXrob mentions above.

The theory behind that fuse is a complete mystery to me. It is a twenty-five cent part but is not intended to be user-replacable – hence the crazy triangular screw-heads–but when it blows it kills the transformer, at least temporarily.

In fact, this entire transformer may “officially” be non-repairable. It seems to depend upon whom you talk to. Some (if n

11

I don’t have a CW-80, but I do have a BW-80. The new unit will not run my 1993 Frisco Mike, but the 1033s will.

FWIW.

12

palallin,

Although slightly off-topic, your experience with the BW-80 is interesting. Would you care to elaborate?

wolverine

13

Upon purchase of a Thomas set recently, I had a dead CW-80 out of the box. The fan was the only thing that worked. The local dealer replaced it with a fresh CW-80 and it has performed perfectly.
I would trust the modern circuit breakers much more than those in a 1033. Once you get a good CW, they seem to be a great little transformer. Very smooth power ramp and a great looking package.

14

Speaking of transformers, I just got the Williams flyer in the mail with their new transformer in it - $150 for 150 watts, horn, whistle, horn, brake, direction, 12 volts constant for accessories and overload indicator.