While I am waiting

Trains Magazine General Discussion
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for all of my numerous questions to be answered on other threads:

We see a lot of Bad Order cars through here. Since we have shops, it is a good thing!

I know they will repair the wheels on a coal car, for instance, with the coal still in the car.

What about any tankers that are full of a flammable or dangerous product? Can you spot weld around them when they are full or do they need to be emptied to work on them?

Anyone want to further enlighten us on repairing Bad Orders and precautions that need to be taken?

Mook

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Here are a couple of points to keep in mind regarding tank cars loaded with hazardous materials (acids, flammables, caustics, compressed gases, and so on).

  1. The commodity for which the car is designed determines its design. Many tank cars carrying hazardous materials consist of an inner tank that holds the commodity, a blanket of insulation wrapped around that, and then a steel protective shell that we see at trackside.

  2. Many of those same cars carry armor plating on each end to minimize the likelihood of punctures during derailments.

  3. I should think that if a loaded hazmat tank has a problem with any F.R.A. mandated safety appliance such as grab irons, sill steps, handbrakes, the air brake system (including linkages), wheels, axles, truck frames, brake rigging, and drawbars, any car shop should be able to repair that while under load.

  4. There may be some super dangerous commodities like sodium cyanide that may have restrictions on the use of cutting torches on or near the car, but I’ve never seen any.

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I hope Mooks gets to see them use a 24 Inch quilted tank strap/ belt used to lift the tank car up. Looks a little strange compared to cable & chain until you see it work. (Looks like one of those 1960’s vibrating belt machines, only much-much bigger. - oops, won’t take that any further )[B)][B)][:I]

-Does Bergie have a smilie icon for when you stepped in it a little too deep?[:o)]

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Why MC whatever are you referring to? [:I] Stand on your tippy-toes like I usually do!

Is this the same type of thing they may use to lift horses?

Someday, someone will take pity on me and lead me around our shops and a trip through the yard. Waiting for takers.

Moo

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/// Checking to see if Gus finished the remodeling job on the doghouse now deeded to me[:I]

Similar to a horse sling, but much bigger (like 40 feet long)…

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Mookie,
When your through with your chicken soup…[:D]

Watch carefully, some cars will have stenciled on the sides and end “Contact Car Owner before any Repairs”.
Most of those are cars with special cargos or cars with a single special purpose and design, and need to be repaired only by the shop that built the car, or one with special equipment.

Do not confuse this with the sticker HOME SHOP FOR REPAIRS.

That means the car owner wants to do his own repairs in his shop, most likely for finical reason….he may decide the car is not worth the cost of repair, and scrap it.

As for welding on the tank, most of the tankcars are as described above, almost like a thermos, they all have a liner or inner tank, and the shell, which is nothing more that a protective cover to hold insulation over the inner tank, and to ward off punctures and absorb damage from switchmen!

Short of cutting big holes with a big torch, you can weld patches and make most repairs directly to the outer tank with no problem.

End caps, or tank heads as they are called, are thicker, often up to a inch of steel, to prevent the coupler of the trailing car from puncturing the tank in a derailment.
Older tankcars have a retro fitted sheild on the ends.
These cars are getting old, and should be retiring soon.

And tank cars also have shelf couplers, that lock together in a manner that keep them from riding up and over each other, for the same reason.

Most rail cars have a jack point on them, a place with extra bracing purpose built into the car for the express purpose of lifting the car with jacks, just like your automobile.
In fact, most of the jacks used look like a huge automotive bottle jack.

These points are designed to support the entire weight of the car, loaded or empty, and are an integral part of the car.

If you get close enough, you can often see them, marked with a stenciling and an arrow

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Still smiling at MC’s new residence.

Ed - they do coal car BO set outs here daily. In fact, we are usually on the wrong side of a coal train while they do their back and forths. I hope I am right in assuming that the coal cars are fixed on a rip track about mid central yard (if possible) and that they are caught by possibly a defect detector. But while watching them go back and forth, I got to thinking about the repairs on tankers.

I have seen the tags - about home shop and the jack lifts. And our switchers or whatever is available regularly pull a lot of really mixed freight out east toward our shops and back. Assume that is what is repaired inside the shop rather than a rip track… Just wasn’t sure what they did with a fully loaded flammable or hazardous tank car.

Which begs the question - are the shops equipped to drain a tank car if necessary to work on it?

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Shouldn’t be any tank car drainage necessary for any work a Rip track needs to do. If, however, a tank car (or any other car, for that matter) needs to be unloaded, a suitable similar car is brought in and the load transferred–usually by a private contractor specializing in such things. I haven’t seen it happen very often.

If damage (or potential damage) to a tank car’s interior is detected, it would be sent to a home shop for repairs. Large tank car operators have many home shops available (they’re listed in the Equipment Registers), so it’s a question of getting it to the nearest one, usually. The railroad’s repair facility will do what’s necessary to make the car safe for movement, and safe movement is seldom, if ever, affected by the tank car’s interior.

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Mookie,

I used to work Hazardous Materials Control for Southern Pacific. A loaded tank car of anything is a great heat sink so you can weld on the tank with no problem including flammable liquids and gasses. I had to hand hold a nervous welder once but most guys had either done it before or did not think about it.

The risky business is taking a torch to a car that “last contained” a flammable or combustible. The car needs to be rendered inert before cutting on it. I am told by reliable sources that one of my compatriots killed himself by cutting on a tank that had not been rendered inert after he left the railroad.

Mac

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Each manufacturer has very specific instructions on how to lift or even repair their cars. This information is readilly available to qualified repair shops. It is extremely important to verify what make and model as changes can occur that are not obvious from just looking at a car. There is also the matter of accurate maintenance records for each specific car.

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The more I study this the better it gets. This isn’t just a train running down a track and annoying the citizens at crossings.

I wish a lot more businesses would run their facilities as well as the railroads seem to run theirs.

Again - thanx for information.

Mookie

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Mac-Do you remember Herbie and his sudden end?

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Bob,

The reference is to Herbie. I just heard about it a few months ago when two of my old guys found me.

Mac

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That’s not to be confused with the result of a large amount of fire directly impinging on a full tank of flammable liquid (LP being the usual substance). If the impingment goes on long enough, it will boil the flammable liquid, causing a pressure increase, and cause the tank itself to fail. The end result is measured in city blocks and hundreds of feet, and is one of the primary reasons for the HazMat “rule of thumb” (if you can cover the scene with your thumb, you’re far enough away).

The explosion is called a “BLEVE” (pronounced blevie), which is an acronym for “boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion.”

Google Kingman, AZ; Crescent City, IL; and Oneonta, NY with BLEVE and you should find some interesting information.

Fortunately such accidents are rare in the first place, and we now recognize them for the hazard they are, so few lives are lost.