How is the distance determined in placing the whistle posts from the grade crossing? Is the speed limit taken into consideration (i.e. placed far enough away so an engineer has adaquate time to do the proper long, long, short, long on tracks with higher speeds)? I’ve wondered about this for a while and thought it would be an intersting topic.
First, I am sure that you mean the 2 longs a short and a final long.
Second. Yes speed is brought into account. If I remeber correctly the normal distance is roughly about 1/4 of a mile. The FRA came out with a notice about a year ago and asked the railroad trainmasters to post a general order, or notice having trains approaching a crossing start whistle a cerstain time from the whistle board. If the track speed was say 45 you would blow at the whistle board. If say it was 10 you would wait I think 1 minute and so many seconds before you started blowing for the crossing.
Is it common knowledge what the dash-dash-dot-dash symbolizes?
Bang head on wall… Yep that’s what I meant.
This reads correct. Or did you sneak back and edit?
Perhaps it is not well known.
Dash-dash-dot-dash is Morse Code for “Q”. In the early days of locomotion, it signified that the “Queen” was approaching - and not particularly quickly then …
This discussion prompted me to flip through a book I was given at a seminar many years ago. It is not on public sale, and is mainly a reference book. One of the type where you get a 3 hour lecture and a 150 page book.
At any rate, the FRA had some input in this book and they suggested 1/4 mile for a whistle post. This is 1320 feet, and a train moving 30 mph will take 30 seconds to reach the crossing. Thirty seconds is a lot of time in a traffic situation and a conscientious driver has plenty of opportunity to make a right decision.
As a postscript, of the many whistle posts I’ve measured in these investigations, I’ve seldom found one more than 1/4 mile from the crossing. And we have many outstate crossings in MO with very limited visibility.
…Warren’s question re: Morris Code and the crossing whistle sequence, for some reason took me back years…Many of them. In studying for a merit badge {Scouting}, I remember I learned the basic Morris Code in one evening.
Reading Warren’s question, I had to go look it up…That is, to see what it’s read out was…such as the letter “Q”…and now not having written the Code for years, I was lucky to remember a half dozen letters.
well you almost have it right. in the past the rule was the whistle board would be 1/4 mile back and the engineer would time himself to have 2 longs a shot and then the final long blown and held til head end occupies crossing. this was done no matter how slow he was meaning there was no set rule to how much time paused between blows. then this year comes along and the fra changed it. the new rule is the whhistle board is a guide only the engineer will blow for any crossing for 15 seconds but no longer than 20secomds the whistle board dont mean anything as speed can varie so nuch its time now not distance
I have always been told by roadforemans ,other Engineers and lawyers when going to court over crossing accidents that in WVa. and Ohio the required distance for a whistle board is 1500 ft.
I have always been asked by lawyers from both sides ,when did I start blowing the horn .?
The answer has always and most certainly been, before the board.
Railview and better data recorders help Engineers and the r.r.'s out on this now.
maybe…
Actually I do have it right for the time I stated. The book is dated 1990 and I’ve been retired 8 years. I haven’t kept up with new regulations, and was unaware that the FRA had changed them.
Still, it’s a good idea to slow down and look at all crossings, as you and I both know.
I find that most of our engineers start the bell at the whistle post (question from a passenger a couple weeks ago - “what’s the sign with the W mean?”), then sound the horn as appropriate to get that 15-20 seconds.
Well that is why i put almost right that was the way it use to be now we have new rules. go to the fra web site read up on the new stuff they want 15 seconds of whislte blowing. if running 5 mph i dont start blowing at the whistle board i wait. but if i am running amtrak at 80 mph 3/4 mile away might do it but at 3/4 mile who gonna here the whistle anyways.
When the FRA came out with the 1/4 mile rule a yr ago, some whistle boards were moved to that distance from the road crossing. The carriers and FRA are being very strict on the rule requirement for whistling @ crossings. Five seconds for each long, three for each short. For some reason, this new rule has caused confusion on just how to apply it and I cannot understand why. If your speed is 45 or over @ the time you pass the whistle board, start whistling and repeat the sequence until the eng is over the crossing. The failures have been quite high on this rule. Our rd frmn told us that he has engrs out here 30 yrs service that don’t understand how to properly use the new whistle. Quite sad.
The spacing predates FRA and goes back to RR Commissions spacing the Wx boards out 50-80 rods (1 rod = 16.5 feet= 1 Perch=1/4 Chain)…From the 40’s to the 70’s, some states got cute and started calculating how many seconds in advance of the crossing the boards had to be and sertting the rules that way. Things got fouled-up and folks on slow branch lines started cheating boards towards the crossing taking time over minimum distance. Some states, like Kansas, had ambiguous rules which conflicted and made things backwards. FRA stepped in to mitigate the confusion.
Think I recently saw an 1873 rule from either WI or MT setting the boards at 80 rods (1320’)
Here in Brazil the whistle plates are mounted about 500 meters before bridges and crossings, in bolth ancient and modern railroads.[:)]
Pedro
I know the whole whistle board issue has be stated in another thread, but again I have never seen any certain time that you have to blow the whistle. I mean as far as how long you have to blow the horn for each long or short. I know the black boxes pick up the whistle better with more than a 3 second blow, but still. I know you have to blow the whistle atleast 15 seconds before the crossing. In fact I got an email just the other day from and FRA guy and he said nothing about how long the whistle has to be blown as far as for the Long or the short. If they put a new rule out, then I guess some of the crews here in Dallas on one particular short-line will be getting a few things from the FRA real quick. You have to understand something before you start thinking about why someone would get ahold of the FRA. Dallas is one of the largest cities in the US. There are so many rail crossing in this city is is unbeleivable, and now with DART puting more light rail in there will be more crossings. The majority of the public thinks that they do not have to stop for a train unless the train is right on the crossing. The trains crews I am refering to are only blowing 4 very short blows of the horn for every crossing. When the rule says 2 longs a short and a long, that is what you are supost to do. The rules of the railroad are written in blood. This is one reason I love the Canadian wide body cabs. Most have a horn for the conductor to blow. If the engineer is not following the rules help him out a bit, or better yet if he is in the can the conductor can stay at his desk and blow for the crossings. I also think that if the bridges are on a long curve and you can not see across it you should have to whistle off approaching the bridge. Even in tunnels. There are so many stupid people out here that walk the tunnels. I am sorry if I have offended anyone if they were walking in a tunnel, but Tunnels are for trains.
I think the problems arise when the train is running less than 45 MPH, it seems that some think that you can get it exactly right, no less than 15 seconds or more than 20 seconds of whistle blowing, regardless of speed. It isn’t that easy to do at varied speeds under 45 MPH. Don’t think it would be so easy for the RFE’s to do, either.
I know while I was on the TPW and operating trains on the BNSF Peoria sub, both railroads had general orders stating if speed is 45 or above start whistling at the whistle board. If you are below 40 and below, you start blowing after a certain time period. If I had those general orders with me I would give the times, but I dont right now, maybe I can find them after a while.