I understand the conductor is in charge…but in railroad employment ads I sometimes see…“Successful candidates will train to become conductors. Experienced conductors may then train to become locomotive engineers.” Not the exact wording but you get the idea.
So I could become a conductor and then in a few years take further training to become an engineer. And then… I could very well be bossed by a newbie conductor?
technically, yes.
But no in practice?
According to the Operating Rules, the conductor is in charge.
In reality, on the road, the engineer is usually in charge, as he is running the train and the conductor is often asleep. [zzz]
Nick
the conductor is the boss of the train…the engineers is in charge of the engins… but under the labor contracts conductors are to be promoted to engineers… you will not have a choice in the matter to take traning to be an engineer… when your time to go is you will go or you will no longer be an employee of that railroad… also you will have to pass the engineer training program and get your card…failer to do so you will also no longer be employeed by that railroad… \
csx engineer
Thank you for the replies.
From the GCOR…
1.47 Duties of Trainmen and Enginemen
The conductor and the engineer are responsible for the safety and protection of their train and observance of the rules. If any conditions are not covered by the rules, they must take every precaution for protection.
A. Conductor Responsibilities
B. Engineer Responsibilities
1. The engineer is responsible for safely and efficiently operating the engine. Crew members must obey the engineer's instructions that concern operating the engine. A student engineer or other qualified employee may operate the engine under close supervision of the engineer. Any employee that operates an engine must have a current certificate in his possession. 1. The engineer must check with the conductor to determine if any cars or units in the train require specithanks edblysard
It may not be an intuitive approach, but it does seem to make sense in the milieu or the culture when one looks at it more deeply. The conductor learns what it is to make a train move in concert with the system from A to B, and does it many times to get exposure to the foibles of the same, of human crews, and to unpredictable events that can test one’s responsiveness and mettle. Only with that wisdom and experience can you then apply for training as the person who actually takes 10K tons on that A-B journey.
-Crandell
Yes, I, the conductor, (seniority date: August 31, 2008) am in charge of the train, even though the engineer may have been running since the mid-1990’s.
Doesn’t mean I won’t defer to his opinion, however.
And you’re running on the roadmaster’s track (when he lets the DS have it) [}:)]
If you look at it closely, you can see the reasoning behind the splitting of the responsibilities between crafts, from the road foreman being in charge of the tracks and keeping it maintained, to the yardmaster having control over all operations in a yard, the dispatcher out on the road, and why a conductor is in charge of the train, the engineer in charge of how the train is handled.
If all of the responsibility was in one place, and that one person made a mistake, the consequences would be catastrophic…
That said, there is also a reason the conductor and engineer share a rule book, and learn each others jobs.
As Crandell pointed out, on most roads, you pound rocks first, then get up on the seat box.
Because learning literally from the ground up makes sense.
I trust my engineer with my life in a shoving move.
I expect him to know first hand what the track is like where I am, and in his minds eye see what I see based on my car count and description of the movement.
When I tell him “ten cars to the crossing, crossing clear so far”, I know he can see what I see because he has been there and done that…and I am always rewarded with the gentle slack run out as he slows up a little, just in case…he runs the slack out now, so if we do have to stop, I don’t get snapped of the end of the cut.
Both engineer and conductor attend the same safety briefing; both get copies of track bulletins, track warrants, both hear the same daily safety rule for a reason…we split the responsibility, each one’s jobs slightly overlapping the other.
I have no problem telling my engineer to slow down some, I call every signal, even though he can see it plainly also, I call all clear at crossings even though he can see its clear too…simply because he will be unhesitant in telling me when I am making a silly or time wasting move when we switch industries…I back him up, he backs me up.
When we mount up, I would be leery of any engineer that di
If the engineer is incapacitated can the conductor take over the controls?
Yes, but only to stop the train following the prescribed rules…each railroad will cover this in their own timetable and safety rules.
Railroads write their own operation rules, which may be more restrictive than the GCOR…they may not make a rule less restrictive.
On my railroad, if the engineer is incapacitated, the conductor is required by rule to stop the train using the automatic train brake, following our train handleing rules, then notify the yardmaster or dispatcher in control.
If the conductor is also a certified and licensed engineer, and the locomotive is in a location where getting medical help for the engineer would be hard or impossible, he may move the train to the next crossing where medical help can reach the locomotive.
Because of our local contract, and the way our senority contract works, we have a few conductors who have been through engineers class, have their cards, but still work as conductors.
On my road, you are not forced to engineer unless the entire roster ahead of you has been used…the youngest man on the conductors extra board will be forced into engine service first, and then they will work their way upward.
I can and have refused engineers training, I like being a conductor.
I will also point out that at locations where car inspectors are not employed, the Conductor is responsible for seeing that cars to be picked up are fit for operation (properly loaded, no detectable safety defects) and any car found unfit for transportation will be left and reported to the proper authority.
In regards to passenger train operations, the Conductor’s administrative responsibilities are significant enough to generally say that he/she is in charge of the train. The engineman is jointly responsible only for the safe movement of the train. Aside from operating on signal indication, the engineman takes direction for the movement of the train from the Conductor or subordinate trainman.
From my days as a passenger train conductor, I will say that there are many significant differences between passenger and freight work. A passenger train conductor is responsible for seeing that passengers are entrained or detrained quickly and safely, all the while seeing that all other station work (loading/unloading express, mail, baggage or supplies) is done in an efficient and safe manner. They are responsible for checking transportation and seeing that passengers are put off at their respective destinations. Conditions on the train must be constantly monitored and corrected if necessary. This includes lighting, heating/air conditioning, lavatories, etc. Uncoupling cars is more complicated as there are often electrical cables and vestibule curtains to be disconnected and gates to be closed. Also, a good passenger train conductor will know his/her equipment inside and out-just as an engineman knows his locomotive.
I have also read on some railroads you start out as conductor then it is mandatory that you become an engineer.
In the above situation is it possible that you could “get promoted” and go back to being a conductor after spending a certain amount of time as an engineer?
Yes…
In fact, my switchman helper is a licensed engineer, he ran for a year.
The PTRA furloughed a bunch of the younger guys, plus business did not pick up as well as management thought it would, so 7 of the last engineers were put back on the ground, based on their seniority, “youngest” first.
When they take them back up, he is third in line.
On road jobs, the condr is employee in charge while the eng frmn is in charge of yd jobs. On my local job, if the condr lays off and I get some xtra bd guy who doesn’t know the job quite well (which is usually the case), I’ll let them do the talking to ds, fill out the paperwork, do the hammerhead while when we are at a station switching, I’ll do the heavy ground work such as spotting cars, talking to the dock foreman, etc. I’m a nice guy though–I’ll let them keep the condr code so they can made the higher condr wage for that day.
every carrier has differnt rules and labor agreements in regards to being able to go back as a conductor after you have got your engineers certification… some will let you…others might not… alot of it depends on engineer avalibity on a divistion or terminal… more engineers on hand then needed for jobs then they might let you go back on the ground… the same is true in reverse… some roads will make you follow your senority as an engineer once your promoted… cant hold in a terminal that is close to your home…to bad…your going to work at someplace that might be a 100 miles away…
it all depends on the road and the labor agreements in place…
csx engineer
under the national agreements for the major carriers that is how it is to be done… anyone with no railroad experince isnt normaly hired right into engin service off the street…althow there are execptions from time to time…but they are few and far between… they might hire you out as a conductor…put you through the conductor training…promote you and the next day your sent to engin school… has happend here where i work…
csx engineer