My little layout is just good old analog DC control, one of my brass diesels has DCC/Sound in it to run at a friends house that is totaly DCC. The big club layout here in town is strictly DC with block control and CTC dispatching. The dispatcher has control of all mainline turnouts, only the yard and towns have local turnout control. Mike
I can do both, I push all the block switches to the right, turn on track power and use my GML hand held throttle to run DC locomotives of which I still have one left. Or, I can push the block switches to the left and and use my Digitrax Zephyr to run the 20; or, so decoder equipped locos I have. My Zephyr cost around $160.00 and most on my decoders were under $20.00.
Mark,
So what features of DCC do you find valuable/important?
Do you run multiple trains at the same time? For example, the only way I run more than one train by myself, is to put trains on seperate “display loops” planned into the track plan.
I would never try to “operate” two trains on the same route at the same time with out seperate operators and/or a dispatcher on duty - DC or DCC.
Just trying to understand what value DCC adds to your operation?
Years ago when the first comand control systems showed up, I said that’s great, but to take full advantage of it you need to be able to walk around with the train.
I consider my wireless throttles and signaling to be way more important than most of the other features of DCC.
Sheldon
This would be a great topic under a separate thread - - - What Value Does DCC Add to Your Operation.
Of course, the topic here is Who Still Models Old School DC Block Operation, so there is no point in sidetracking the DC discussion.
But, it would be interesting to have discussion, in a separate thread, about the supposed advantages of DCC that you cannot achieve with DC.
Rich
Rich,
I agree, likely a better topic for a seperate thread - BUT - look how many DCC users have posted in this thread despite its title?
So, I can’t speak for the OP, but conversations go where they go.
Respectfully, it seems “DC” points of view are not this welcome in DCC threads?
Heck, my DC opinions were not even welcome on the topic of how to spend less money on this hobby?
So if Mark or others are willing to explain why they prefer DCC, even if they barely use its primary features, I’m open to listen.
The real question is will I, or Dr. Wayne, or Tom or Chuck, or the OP, really be heard by any of the DCC users?
Sheldon
Sheldon, I am not trying to cut you off in this thread. I am just picking up on your comment about what the advantages of DCC might be over DC - - what can you do with DCC that you cannot do in DC.
As far as DCC users are concerned, a few of us DCC users have replied to this thread but not to push DCC but, rather, to offer our observations on DC operation.
I just didn’t want to hijack this thread on DC by wandering into a discussion on the merits of DCC.
Rich
Rich,
I agree with your concern and just wanted to point out the bolded. I think you offered a broader theoretical discussion about what can be done in DCC than DC, which was not Sheldon’s question. Sheldon asked a question was to a specific forum member about his layout and operation and how it was enhanced wit DCC. These threads can get hijacked into the old arguments easy enough without broadening the topic even further.
Not policing responses here…I just cringed at the idea of people reading that and going off on the usual theoretical arguments.
I installed a DCC system to run the onboard sound locomotives (at about 35% sound levels).
My layout is primarily DC. Like Wayne and some others, I don’t bother with blocks since I only move one train at a time, which I follow with my Aristo Craft wireless throttle needed to cover the 35 foot long layout. Slow speed control of quality Atlas and P2K locomotives is as good as the DCC system. Inexpensive light switches power parking tracks on and off.
Other than providing better control of onboard sound locos, DCC has no advantage on my layout. It’ll be DC for as long as it remains intact, as will any new layout I build.
My layout is in the position where I am still on the fence. On the one hand I operate regularly on DCC layouts and have become very accustomed to the freedom that DCC provides and am comfortable with more than one brand of DCC equipment. Moreover, DCC not only offers commercial and readily available wireless throttles, but it is now difficult to find commercially available memory throttles in DC. MRC might advertise that it still believes in DC but they have discontinued products that would support their statements.
On the other hand I have laboriously collected over the years a roster of locomotives that fit my era and prototype exactly and none of them are DCC ready much less equipped with decoders. And the prototype operation that I emulate is double track main line, where my layout essentially occupies just over a block-long stretch of track. Rarely did I see two trains on the double track main; I never saw two trains on the same main. So many of the wonderful advantages of DCC would not be needed given my particular situation.
If I was starting out with acquring a new roster of locomotives I would go DCC. But, I’m not.
Dave Nelson
If I hit the Lotto maybe I’ll do some converting to DCC, but with large table speakers.
Until then, it’s blocks and rail insulators for me and MRC powerpacks for my blue box diesels and spectrum steamer with some CDs of train sounds.
I started a similar thread a couple years ago; “Left behind by technology, Am I Alone?” It was the only thread I ever started that I couldn’t read all the comments on!
I’m still running DC, and have no particular plans to change, but the door is always open…
Dan
Guess what— mine is still DC with MRC power packs and more blocks controlled by Atlas slide switches than most layouts my size should ever deserve. I am not contrarian by design, just someone who models at a much slower pace than the one that the drumbeat of electronic progress churns along at.
Don H.
As a former CM20 user, I find it interesting how many DC users swear by it. Too bad they’re no longer made. It made walkaround control easy and affordable for the masses, asn was a darn good throttle to boot. I found mine were still quite appreciated on used market when it came time to part with them.
I do find DCC works for me for several reason, some of which I’m sure Sheldon has DC answers for. But based on past discussions, I suspect they’re more like walkaround control was before the CM20, sorta mysterious to the average hobbiest and thus unlikely to be pursued. For technology, good, bad or indifferent, to be widely accepted requires a low bar to entry and easy and cheap access to the components that make it happen. There’s the mission to the moon and the VW Beetle, both built during the 60s. The Saturn/Apollo vehcile was impressive and could do a lot of cool stuff on way less memory than is in your cellphone these days. But it was the VW that you saw everywhere, not just on TV or on the NASA tour.
So my list of things I find DCC work better for me (which doesn’t mean they’re better, just for me [swg] )
Sound - Yeah, it works on DC, I got my first Blackstones right before the DCC conversion. They were inspiring (once again, they worked for me, I understand some folks just don’t buy it – literally), but when I discovered all the many more cool things they could do on DCC, well, that was the last straw. The best part is DDE, which basically dials the motor load into the sound card, so it really sound like it digs in at the bottom of the grades and works hard to the top.
Consisting – Well, 12 volts of brute force will smooth out lots of combinations of motive power [(-D]. On the other hand, speed matching isn’t as hard as it seems, unless you’re OCD…OK, scratch that, I’m talking to a bunch of model rails, so let’s just say, you don’t need to try too hard, close enough usually works.
Atmosphere – almost the same as so
It takes a lot more than $200.
I dunno. A NCE PowerCab and a decoder or two to go with might even leave you some change out of that $200. Obviously, if your roundhouse is full, the cost will be corresondingly higher. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles. But it’s something that can be spread out over time. If you’re doing your own installs, time is as important as money, so it could take awhile. In my case, it was close to a year and I still had a few stragglers.
I don’t think anyone can settle on whether DCC or DC is right for someone else. That person simply needs to make a game effort to understand how either could work for them. Part of that is learning about how each one does things. Many both do, just different implementations. Others end up being very different or really not comparable. Whether any are important one way or another, to understand why you need at least a minimum set of knowledge about both. As much as Sheldon seems to be an advocate for DC, for instance, he also know his way around DCC. And if you take the average DCC devotee, they’re almost certain to know a little about DC. Heck, some of them know a lot about DC or, if they’re like me, they used to know a lot and just can’t remember it all that much any more.[:D]
Whose argument are your referring to? Mine or Sheldon’s?
Rich
In an effort not to derail this thread on DC, Sheldon’s question was used as the basis for a new thread asking people to respond to Sheldon’s questions. If you are DCC user and would like to respond to Sheldon’s question, please do it there.
Thanks!
[quote user=“mlehman”]
As a former CM20 user, I find it interesting how many DC users swear by it. Too bad they’re no longer made. It made walkaround control easy and affordable for the masses, asn was a darn good throttle to boot. I found mine were still quite appreciated on used market when it came time to part with them.
I do find DCC works for me for several reason, some of which I’m sure Sheldon has DC answers for. But based on past discussions, I suspect they’re more like walkaround control was before the CM20, sorta mysterious to the average hobbiest and thus unlikely to be pursued. For technology, good, bad or indifferent, to be widely accepted requires a low bar to entry and easy and cheap access to the components that make it happen. There’s the mission to the moon and the VW Beetle, both built during the 60s. The Saturn/Apollo vehcile was impressive and could do a lot of cool stuff on way less memory than is in your cellphone these days. But it was the VW that you saw everywhere, not just on TV or on the NASA tour.
So my list of things I find DCC work better for me (which doesn’t mean they’re better, just for me )
Sound - Yeah, it works on DC, I got my first Blackstones right before the DCC conversion. They were inspiring (once again, they worked for me, I understand some folks just don’t buy it – literally), but when I discovered all the many more cool things they could do on DCC, well, that was the last straw. The best part is DDE, which basically dials the motor load into the sound card, so it really sound like it digs in at the bottom of the grades and works hard to the top.
Consisting – Well, 12 volts of brute force will smooth out lots of combinations of motive power . On the other hand, speed matching isn’t as hard as it seems, unless you’re OCD…OK, scratch that, I’m talking to a bunch of model rai
Block Control is far more prototypical than DCC.
Block Control is how the signal systems work. Obviously Railroads are not controlling power such as we are, they do not need to, but the authority to occuupy the track is conveyed by the signal blocks.
Idealy, a scale block would have no power on it. When the signal is cleared for a train to proceed, the power from the block that the train is on is routed to the block that it is entering. While your engineering is more complicated than that, the practice is not.
What DCC buys you in NOT ease of operation, operation becomes far more difficult, but it simplifies wiring and construction, and for a large layout would be far less expensive than the cost and labor of a DC wired layout.
ROAR
To Richhotrain (my quote function isn’t working)
I was referring to the dcc/dc debate over the years by the entire forum where the discussion usually focuses upon what COULD be done with DCC or DC and not what someone actually does.
I explain my position, and how it makes sense for me to use simple wiring DC, by explaining how I actually operate my layout. I lot of responses aren’t that specific about operation. It’s always made me wonder how many folks who advocate DCC operate their layouts. I think that was the gist of Sheldon’s specific question.
I think a persons direction in the hobby are guided by their preferences, and differences in preferences leads to different decisions about how best to accomplish their goals.
Even the title to the thread implied a certain operating preference…the need to use blocks with DC. I don’t think it was the intent of the OP, however. Several responses pointed out that not everyone wants a layout where blocks would be necessary…as a mere point of clarification.