Well, Carl, I bought Athearn Genesis Big Boy and Challengers with the original MRC decoder which Athearn apparently knew to be of bad quality and were/are “time bombs” as to when the decoder starts doing bizzare things.
When Athearn went to Tsunami Sound I inquired if an under warrantee exhange repair could be made or after warrantee period ran out. I offered to pay but they would (and still will ) only replace the with MRC decoders even though they know and have not renewed a contract with them.
The cracked gear issue is minor compared with this and even though the company is still around and knew about the issue hasn’t ever offered any real fix even under warrantee.
So…these things will show up in the hobby from time to time with or without fair redress of the issue (even if under warrantee still) from the manufacturers although most do their best to help.
I wrote a lot of emails and posted on the forum about the Genesis MRC fiasco but it didn’t do any good. This was then a new product. You’re not going to get any fixes from a manufacuterer on a 20 year old issue. Sorry. But the feeling of indignation you feel is shared by others from time to time and maybe will provide you with a little solace.
Be glad that the fix for the P2K trucks is quick, easy and inexpensive. I have regeared my entire fleet, some using wheel/gear/axel sets provided by Walthers (at the time I needed them I think they were charging $2.25 each) and others I have done using the Athearn gears.
Actually, it gave me good reason to open up the gear cases and dig out the old grease and replace it with a better PTFE lube.
Broadway Limited has had their share of cracked gears. Just last week I went to run a pair of my I1s and they were thumping like lame hippos.
Broadway does not stock driver sets but they offered to send me the gears free of charge OR if I send them the drivers they will install the gears for me, again at no charge. I believe that’s a fair deal.
They put a pretty heavy knurl on the brass hub and that may have contributed to the problem. Some grades of nylon will get brittle, especially these that are packed in grease.
I believe the molding process is part of the problem, too. As the plastic enters the mold there is a point where it flows around the center hub and meets on each side causing a flaw at that point. Add the stress of force-fitting an axel shaft and the stress cracks the gear. I believe the NWSL gears are machined from solid stock whick greatly adds quality, but adds cost as well.
I’m glad most manufacturers have a good parts stock. Kato, Athearn and Bachmann come to mind as being good in this area but I think it would be an inventory nightmare to try to provide the scores of parts EACH model may require especially one that is ten or more years old…
Since I’m seeing a recurring theme here regarding RTR people, can I ask, “can’t we all just get along?” So let me address the above comment “is it really too much work to pull the wheels”…
From what I understand it’s a fairly simple proceedure to turn the loco up-side-down and remove the bottom gear covers from the truck frames and after that the faulty cracked gear axles come out easily, and the replacements basically drop right in. That being the case it’s not a difficult or time consuming process so no, it’s not too much work.
That said, for some folks there will always be some fear of the unknown, or fear of breaking off a tab that holds the cover in place - which in that case would not be so good. Some are handier than others but the replacement issue is relatively easy in the grand scheme of things, as long as a critical part isn’t broken in the process.
ANd I keep saying - this web site is not an accurate cross section of the hobby, at least those who actually post. There are plenty of people for whom even just taking off the truck bottom would be difficult or simply something they wouldn’t want to even attempt. Add to that pulling the wheels off the old gear and pushing them into the new gears - yeah, not going to happen.
ANd the other part of this, this trend to RTR - it’s not a fignment of my imagination, but neither is the main driver a situation like yours where you simply could not build everything you need. If that were the case, we should all scratchbuild - even kits are ‘cheating’. Just check out the younger generations - it’s not “I don’t have enough time”, it’s “I want it, and I want it NOW” as the main driver. Be it hobby or elsewhere in life. I have RTR equipment - some manufacturers like Accurail and Bowser release the same models as their kits but with different numbers - so buy buying and building all the kits plus buying the RTR versions I get an even larger fleet without resorting to erasing decals and applying new ones.
For those folks you are referring to, buying NIB old P2k loco’s produced 15 to 20 years ago is probably a bad idea due to the very high incident of cracked gears - that is if replacing them is “not going to happen”. Lesson for them, only buy new and then deal with customer service for those loco’s. Or buy train sets.
So why make it sound like wanting to have something already made as if it’s a bad thing? Or am I misreading the conotation to “I want it, and I want it NOW” - as sounding negative and whiney? What happend to Model Railroading is fun? People are busy. Not everyone is retired and has time to do all the various aspects of building a model RR. Not everyone enjoys building kits. I’d argue that in the olden days, many did it because there was simply no other way to get a roster of trains. I’ve built plenty but I don’t enjoy it as much as I used to, but still do, yes out of necessity because some models I need only come in kit form. Anyway, as my daughter would say, “peace out” and keep it positive.
People have been bellyaching that other people were playing with trains wrong since MR started publication. Read some of the letter columns from the 40s and 50s.
Sometimes model railroaders sound like a bunch of kindergarteners.
I take offense to that. Ok so I really don’t. At all. But I catch your drift.
You actually helped me with taking off the bottom of my engine trucks last week- something I really was apprehensive about. Turned out to be a great experience. I hope I fall into the “younger generation” but something tells me 34 doesn’t really make the cut.
I do remember a boxcar kit my dad bought me when I was about 12 and getting so frustrated trying to put those tiny little springs in the trucks and finally gave up. Well my dad gave me the unfinished kit for Christmas when I told him I wanted to get into the hobby again about a year ago. I figured out how to get the springs in and it’s one of my favorite cars now. When anyone comes over I point out how impressed they should be that I got those springs in.
I have/do buy rtr but am gaining a new appreciation for kit building- especially when I do the math- 2 kits for the price of one rtr. It costs more time for sure but I get memories and experience whilst building it. Sunday night I started a branchline reefer kit and thought, “sure, by Wednesday night I’ll be done.” I can squeeze in maybe an hour or 45 minutes every night and now my estimate for completion is Saturday morning just in time
And this whole thing got WAY out of context - the very “whiners” posted in this thread, thinking it was unreasonable to have to swap the parts themselves!
Hard to believe, buit I’m sure there are plenty of people who don’t know about the cracked gear problem. For those that do and avoid buying them because they are afraid of somethign or other, well, their loss is my gain, since I can get Proto Geeps for $30 or less on eBay while the less detailed Atlas ones still go for over $80. Five minutes and $5 worth of Athearn parts and I have a solid, highly detailed loco.
Same as it’s always been in this hobby. Results are achievable with any mix from practically zero effort but lots of money to not much money but a huge effort. I never said it was wrong, or someone is not a ‘real’ model railroader for buying RTR equipment.
My problem with the p2k gear problem involves a Proto 2000 E6 passenger unit that developed cracked gears. I rarely ran the locomotive and the problem was late showing up so I didn’t detect it until after Walther’s had stopped supplying a replacement, paid for or free. I tried to find a suitable replacement from Athearn but the wheel size, on the ones I purchased, is a bit different plus the gear on the axle isn’t quite the same. If I remember right it was one tooth different. So, unless I can locate, as Walther’s suggested in a phone call to them, an old e6 unit to rob of wheel/axles… I have a nice E6 paperweight.
I find these two statements to be somewhat contradictory.
As the “whiner” I believe you are referring to, just for the record, what I was trying to say was that LL didn’t deserve the sympathy being expressed because they got off easy. They sold the loco’s as RTR and got away with providing only parts to correct their manufacturing problem.
I bought 5 of the “new old stock” GP9’s about a year ago off ebay. I had the replacement gears in hand before they arrived.
To the topic of the thread, “Why am I the only person botherede by Life Like P2k axles?” The answer is obviously you are not the only person bothered by it. BUT I have many (probably over 50 units) sitting in boxes that have this potential problem. It does not bother me, because I was too lazy to do anything about back when everyone knew this was happening. Had I immediately either sent those units back to LifeLike or at least written them to get the spare parts, then I would be good. But I didn’t, so now 15? years later I don’t think I have much of an argument to stand on, nor do I think anyone else does. So I’m saying if one was going to be “bothered” by it, they should have done something about it way back when.
LL was way too nice in sending brand new wheelsets just because someone asked for them, which is basically what they did.
There is a little warranty card in the box, along with other paperwork that customers just trash, and LL should have required proof of how many LL locomotives were owned by requiring the customer to send the cards to LL…or at least tell them the serial number on the paperwork.
Trashed the paperwork? Sorry, no free parts. They print the paperwork for a reason.
The other thing about this - yes, they all crack - eventually. When I bought mine, it was already several years after the run in which the ones I have were made, but a couple were new int he box. The two I ran most - one I ran for 3 years before it developed a cracked gear. The other - never did, but I repalced it anyway. I have 4 others, which all came int he original boxes, packaged as new, witht he shell and chassis seperated. One had a cracked gear out of the box - but remember this was first removed and tested by me (not sure if it was truly new or had been run before) some 12 years after it was made. The second one of those I tried ran fine, no cracked gear, but since I took it apart to put a decoder in and also clean out the old grease and put in fresh, I repalced the gears with the Athearn ones anyway.
So while the warranty indeed was “limited lifetime”, these things weren;t broken day 1 out of the box when new, and they could and did last for a long time before the symptoms appeared.
