Why DCC ?

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I’m building an N scale layout in my basement. I’m not sure if I should go DC or DCC.

DCC sounds like it would be much better for operating purposes, especially in the yard. But it also sounds like a whole hobby unto itself. Not to mention, I’m not super handy, so installing decoders in locomotives sounds a little intimidating. And, diodes and amps and whoodingeys, i don’t have the foggiest. Plus, I don’t foresee (but never say never), using it for anything more than simple train control (no signal sys., sound, detectors, etc.). So is it really worth it? Is the learning curve as big as i’m making it?

2

For basic operation - just running the trains, no signal systems, no detection, no 28 function sound decoders, no I don’t think the learning curve is really all that high. The hardest thing about N scale is installing the decoders - and that’s more mechanical than an electrical issue. Depending on the age and brand of locos you have, decoder installations can range from not to hard to outside help needed - as in milling the frames to make room for the decoder.

I lots of years of soldering experience, and no problems installing decoders in HO locos, but between my large and rather uncoordinated hands and rather thick glasses, tehre are some things I’d just rather not do - working with pieces of decoder wire only 1/2" long is one of them, despite having a giant gooseneck magnifier on my workbench. This is probably the main reason I haven’t switched to N, now that many of the cars and locos I’d need are actually available. If the tiny size of things doesn’t bother you - if you install individual grabs on your N scale locos, for example - then go for it.

Then there’s the issue of how you plan to operate this layout. If it’s almost always just going to be you alone running one train, there may be no need for DCC. Just get a DC throttle with a walkaround and you’re all set.

–Randy

3

For a one train/locomotive operation DCC is not a necessity. It is more of a convenience. If you want to run multiple trains then DCC is better than the old block wiring with multiple transformers. You can make DCC as hard as you want or you can keep it simple. Most people run into trouble when they try reprogramming locos without knowing what value to enter. There is always factory reset. I am not an Nscaler but have stuffed many a decoder into places that were not meant to have one. N scale decoders coming onto the market lately seem very simple to install. Most are designed for a particular loco that will not require whoodingeys.( I know how hard those are to put in) There are many locos on the market right now with decoders already installed with or without sound. Some sound decoder will work on DC but you will not get the full package of sounds.

Pete

4

Why not DCC? That is the question. Multiple train operation without DC block control is so much more fun. As far as decoders go, a lot of engines now come with decoders already installed. DCC is worth it and the learning scale is 1 on a scale of 1 to 10. The techies get all excited about diodes, amps, and whoodingeys, the rest of us just sit back and enjoy. Try it, you will like it.

Rich

5

I just got my DCC system for my HO scale trains and having trains that are made DCC ready it is fairly easy to install the decoder-just plug and play, programing the trains with an unique number takes about 5 minutes with 4 minutes and 30 seconds of that to read the manual the first time. I have three engines and the first one when with out a hitch, the second one was no problem and the third went from stop to wide open with just one click on the throttle. So in the future I will do reset all my decoders just to play it safe. Plus there is fun I have found with DCC even if the train is just sitting there, have the lights come one or blink before I start moving.

6

It’s kind of the other way around - operating on DC requires much more electrical skill than DCC. If you want to run two engines together on a train, if they don’t run at the same speed with DC you have to add resistors to the fast one to try to slow it down. With DCC, it’s a series of simple adjustments done thru your command station.

In DC if you want to run two trains separately, you have to divide the layout into a series of power blocks, each controlled by a DPDT switch and a separate power pack. If you stray into a block not controlled by ‘your’ power pack, you lose control of it or it stops. In DCC, you can have several engines on the same track and move each one separately without affecting the other ones. Pretty nice when moving engines around an engine service facility or yard.

Many engines now come with decoders installed, some with sound decoders - even in N scale!! For many other engines it’s either a “plug and play” installation (pull out the dummy plug and plug in the decoder) or a “drop-in” (remove the light board, and replace it with a decoder shaped like the light board and using the same connections).

If you can get a computer, go online, and register for this forum, you have more than enough skill to operate a DCC layout.

7

I’d agree with the other posters - DCC isn’t harder than DC, it’s easier, at the basic level at least. sure you can get into whodingeys and diodes and what not (funny), but if that’s not your thing, you can just operate trains. Installation, as you mentioned, raises the bar, though, especially in N Scale.

8

With DCC, you are without limitations. To get a DC layout to do what a DCC layout can, you are looking at a bit more wiring…ok…a LOT more wiring.

DCC can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. The anti-DCCers will focus on the complicated ends of things, while the proponents for DCC will show you how easy it is to set up and use. The truth lies somewhere in the middle…actually, it lies at a different place for everyone.

Personally, if you are starting a layout, there is no real reason NOT to go with DCC…the question just becomes “which DCC system”?

David B

9

The one draw back of DCC is having to run feeders but I have about 150 feet of track and I was dreading the adding feeders but when I was trying out my new DCC system (Digitrax Super Empire Builder) / programing my trains, I found it did run a couple engines off one connection with a few slow spots… so the plus is you can play out the box and add feeders a long and long, like I have been, doing a section every couple of days. If you are playing fresh track then doing feeders as you go will be a lot easier than after the track is down

10

For me, the big advantage of DCC is the ability to run multiple locomotives anywhere on your layout without having to worry about where blocks begin and end. For a large layout, DC blocking isn’t such an issue, but on a small layout you will probably have very few blocks, and that greatly restricts your options when running more than one train.

11

Well, to give you some more input as to my situation . . . the layout is single main and runs along all 4 walls of my basement and includes a penninsula, totals about 110’ of linear track. There is a reversing loop. Mostly a single operator, running two trains.

I’m thinking dc walkaround throttles w/ memory would be sufficient for a few hundred dollars. Might be a little less convenient to operate, but quite a bit cheaper than dcc and a much smaller learning curve. Plus, no hassle upgrading my 50 locomotives.

DCC does offer the ease of controlling multiple trains w/ one throttle from any location in the room, right? I definitely see the pros of that. But, if my math is right, that’s maybe $600 or more for wireless dcc & power & autoreversing, right? Not to mention decoders.

Just having a tough time justifying that kind of green.

12

I have a DC n scale layout which i have run for years by myself. recently i have tried operating with 2 people , just did not work… I was lucky , my son got me a MRC wireless Prodigy for my birthday as i was looking at building a operating type HO layout. Not knowing anything about this new fangled dcc , i headed down to Roys , my LHS. he spent abut 45 minutes going over the stuff , and i walked away with a Athern RS3 to test with my new system … No sound , it sounds way to tinny for my ears, so its a pretty basic setup. Took it home and just started fooling around and BINGO , the mystery is gone. I plan on reading the DCC column in MR from the 1st one on, now that i need it…

While i am sure there is more to this than what i have done with mine , once you get a basic understanding the rest will fall in place , just do one step at a time,

13

IMHO, there are 4 key parameters that would throw the decison one way or the other:

  • how much familiarity do you have with DC, and do you have existing DC power packs or throttles that you are happy with? If you are starting from ground zero in DC as well, that minmizes any cost or other advantages of DC.
  • how important is the cost of your control system to you? Will you trade operational flexibility or time learning a system for a minimal cost system? Are you prepared to pay more for extra features and flexibility?
  • how many operators and how many trains will be doing their thing simultaneously?
  • is your track and planned operations relaxed or does it put multiple trains/locomotives on the same track in close succession?

DC grows in complexity and/or pre-planning with the number of operators and locomotives being used simultaneously. The other factor affecting complexity of DC is whether trains are widely separated on the layout or operating in close proximity on shared trackage.

DCC complexity does not vary nearly as much - it tends to stay at one level until the sum of requirements or features drive to another level such as wireless.

If you can provide planned operations scenarios and/or a track plan, as well as the extend of DC equipment and knowledge, we might be a

14

I do trains on a budget–and quite simply put, DCC is a feature I don’t need, don’t want, and can’t afford. I view it as totally unnecessary for any layout I’d ever want to have.

Instead, I’m pleased to have a handful of DC-only articulated steamers. I will be able to run very long trains on my flat, less than 0.5% grade mainline, without any helpers at all.

I have no need for multiple unit operation, and all my turnouts are power routing.

For some folks DCC is just an unneeded expense.

John

15

This is not an either-or question. It is entirely possible to wire a layout for one-operator DC and upgrade to DCC later. If you wire originally for DCC, you’re still going to need all those section breaks if you ever decide to install a signalling or detection system.

If I was starting from a bare workbench in an empty room I would probably go DC to begin with, then switch to DCC when and if its (alleged) advantages outweigh its initial cost.

As it happens, I am NOT starting from a bare workbench. A couple of years ago I moved a couple of pickup loads of rolling stock and layout-related miscellaneous into my newly-purchased house - the one ‘end of the railroad’ module came in the same truck as the furniture. For me, DCC would have been a large expense (50-odd locomotives and powered MU cars) for no perceived gain, so I’m still building and operating analog DC, MZL system. What I’m doing works - FOR ME. I don’t suggest that anyone (other than Sheldon) should follow the same course, and I am NOT open to suggestions that I convert to DCC.

Just my [2c]. Other opinions are sure to differ.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

16

This may be the key factor here. If these are all good, running locomotives, then converting to DCC would be very expensive and time-consuming for you.

Since you’ve got a relatively large layout, you can run with reasonably-sized blocks, too. Even as a die-hard DCC guy, I don’t think you should go with DCC at this point.

17

Why DCC?

Why not DCC?

Why Smart {expensive} Smart phone?

well soon Why not smart phone?

Modern times and the future will bring us many things new and getting used to.

Some of us will hold onto the old dinasour ways, others will move along wuickly, and some. like me will hang back and get the smart phone when no other basic cell phone is available.

BAck to subject… I like few wires to my tracks and ability to run my locos and trains as I see fit in any direction, at the same time, or even on the same track.

18

I guess the intent was to goad the dinosaurs.

I understand DC wiring very well. I have DC power packs and throttles I am satisfied with. I normally operate one train at a time, sequentially, on a layout that someday could accommodate a maximum of 3 operators on 2 separate track systems. I use walk-around control. Aisle limitations prevent trains from being in close proximity on the same track at the same time as long as the operator is staying with his train. So DC is quite feasible, and not that complex for my situation.

I’m not sure a satisfactory sound installation could be made in my tiny 19th Century HO and HOn3 models. If it could, I’m not sure I can afford the loss in weight and tractive effort resulting from a sound installation due to my steep grades. But I would like to have sound some day if it becomes doable.

And finally, at this point, it would take $500+ worth of DCC equipment to duplicate the functionality I already have in DC (starter set with throttle, 2 walk-around throttles, computer interface, 7 decoders, throtte bus and jacks). At present, I have better plans for the $500. If money was not as much of a constraint as it is, I would probably make the jump to DCC for the fun of experimenting with it.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

19

Fwright,

You’re not wrong in your thinking. You’re in a comfort zone with the system you’ve grown accustomed to, and that’s cool.

However…

I opted for DCC when I started building my layout for numerous reasons. First, I had tried it at my club, and it was love at first sight. All of the control functions are in the palm of your hand, including programming the decoders, making and breaking up consists, and running your train. On my MRC system, I can have up to 25 addresses (individual locomotives or consists) at my disposal without ever having to throw a switch on a control panel.

As for cost, if you include walk around throttles, constant lighting for headlights and passenger cars, multiple train control and accessory control in your DC cost estimate, the two really aren’t that far apart. To get the three Control Masters I would need to do basically what my layout does (a main line freight, a local working the mill, and a yard switcher) would have cost me around $600, plus the wiring, plus the throttle jacks, plus the toggle switches and control panels… I paid $200 for my Prodigy Advance, and another $100 for two extra throttles. I can use 8-pin phone jacks from Radio Shack for throttle jacks, and between the three throttles, I can operate up to 75 locomotives individually AT ONE TIME.

Decoders? Yes. They cost money. I got good at installing them, now I do that for others, so decoders pay for themselves now.

Now, my layout is pretty complex operationally. There’s branch lines and junctions and big yards and industrial areas. But it all runs on one black wire, and one white wire. Yes, there are lots of drops, but they’re about 6" long, and they don’t need to be strung to a control panel.

So, my experience demonstrates that it isn’t more economical to use DC (at least not always), and that if you’re comparing operational apples to apples, DCC wins every time. Th

20

Lee

If you read my first post in the thread, you’d see I agree with most of your points. Whether DCC is the simpler choice or not depends on a few key factors - complexity of the layout; number of simultaneous operators/trains, and what you already have on hand and are familiar with. DCC does not win every time, but it is the simpler choice in the more complex situations, especially if starting from scratch for both systems. And if sound is wanted, DCC is the winner hands down.

I was responding to a post just before mine that accused folks like me who have decided for whatever reasons to stay with DC of being dinosaurs. And I guess I am. Even though I work in tech, I can’t be bothered with a smart phone. I’d much rather have a simple cell phone, and a separate PDA (remember those?) with a detachable or attached usable physical keyboard. I see texting and social networking as wastes of time, and used as an excuse for bad manners and failure to work at real relationships. I’d much rather converse with somebody in person, or at least in real voice, than text or similar.

If I didn’t have better (in my mind) purposes for the money DCC would cost me, I’d probably convert just for the tech thrill.

but that’s the dinosaur in me

Fred W