Drivers in the UK but our union is the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen-stange?
It depended on the railroad…most personel referred to electric powered engines be they GG1’s, Box Cabs and so forth as “Motors.”
However the term used for the operators varied from road to road. True…the NYC operators south of Harriman into Manhattan had/have more in common with their 3rd rail brethren operating the subways and therefore have called themselves ‘Motormen.’
The Pennsy, I believe stuck with the term ‘Locomotive Engineer.’ Yet the New Haven and LIRR portions of their system may have used other terms.
I’m not sure at all what the Milwaukee folks did. Anyone?
Not sure if the operators of the ‘combined 3rd rail & diesel’ are called…Maybe someone on the Trains web site knows.
HTH
Mark
LOL… OK[8D] I got the impression that you were insisting the Austrailian term drivers was “more” correct…[;)]
I hear ya…
On the New Haven, it was locomotive engineer pure and simple… Engineers could operate both diesel and electric – ask Noel Weaver on the NHRHTA forum (almost 50 years from NHRR to MN and Conrail). You were an engineer whether you ran FL-9’s, PA-1’s, or EP-
Checking my 'Funk 'n Wagnalls… the suffix 'ee’r is a convention used from ‘old french method of labeling.’
So much of our legal english and titles are derived from Latin and ‘Old French’ words.
So along with the above quote there is…
A ‘Fusileer’ is a soldier who carries and operates fuse actuated muskets.
A ‘Musketeer’ is trained in the operations of small arms (& No doubt Walt Disney’s inspriation for “mouse-ka-teers” which has nothing to do with operating mice [#offtopic] ).
And…
An ‘Engineer’ is trained in the science of operating engines that manuver (over rails or engines of war like tanks - my addition).’
In all seriousness about your concern with the Georgia codifcation of engineers, the term ‘Locomotive Engineer’ was codified by the Federal Government thru the USRA and the National Railroad Administration decades ago.
The term Locomotive Engineer still stands as an beaucratic headache to states who try to legislate the term ‘Engineer.’ Since the operation of railroads involves interstate commerce, most states usually end up making an exception.
The larger problem has been with people using the expression ‘Sales Engineer’ when they are neither engineers nor good sales people.
Traditionally, we always describe what type of engineering we do since the profession of ‘Engineering’ has become SO diverse (I should know since I’m an Architect in real life. [B)] ).
Happy Railroading…
Mark
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha
On the New Haven, it was locomotive engineer pure and simple… Engineers could operate both diesel and electric – ask Noel Weaver on the NHRHTA forum (almost 50 years from NHRR to MN and C
On electric interurban railroads (carrying long-distance passengers) the operator was also commonly known as a motorman, and some electric freight lines used the term “motorman” to refer to the operator of a freight motor. Perhaps on lines that used steam and electric, or later diesel and electric, the term “engineer” was carried over.
The term ‘locomotive Engineer’ dates from before the American Civil War and certainly pre-dates any electric interurban railroad.
Since most roads used steam and later Diesel Electric in overwhelming numbers over ‘electric motors,’ the term ‘Locomotive Engineer’ prevails.
HTH
Mark
in french: mécanicien : that is something like ‘the one that works with an engine…’
in german. Lokomotivführer (yes Führer like in Hitler…): that means ‘leader of the engine’.
in italian: macchinista (the one that works with an engine, it can also bee the engine of a ship).
Sebastiano
Some of UP’s EMD locomotives have the ATC/CCS cab signal switches incorporated into the computer display instead of a seperate switch. On these engines there is a sign posted where the switches normally would be. I don’t off hand remember the exact wording, but it uses “driver” instead of engineer.
Jeff
Yes… ASLEF is very strange [:)]… but the National Union of Railwaymen became RMT (Rail, Marine [&] Transport)…[Should that be Maritime?]. Don’t ever go near TESSA!!!
Point of view from Southern Ontario, Canada:
Although I have no ‘official’ experience with railroading, a cousin used to work on the railroad as an Engineer (on diesel’s) and I grew up only thinking of him and others as such. Never heard the term ‘driver’ when referring to people commanding trains.
well, yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying–on railroads which started out as steam railroads, the term “engineer” came into use, and carried over to their electric and diesel-electric descendants, while on railroads built as electrics from their initial construction, “motorman” was commonly used until much later, typically when the freight motors were replaced by diesels.
I have to wonder why they started calling the other engineers (who don’t operate locomotives or any other engines) by that term. It does seem to have been corrupted, much the same way that “technician” has. The general usage of the terms is that the “technician” has no formal training but knows how to do the job, while the “engineer” has the education but not the know-how.
Well it looks like only the US and Canada have a problem. In Australia and most of the English speaking world they are drivers. Here in Indonesia they are known as “masinis”, which very possibly means Dutch use a similar term as Sebastiano explained for French and Italian in his post.
For the people who are troubled by the use of “engineer” what about army engineers? The ones who build bridges or demoli***hings, not the mechanical and electrical wallahs. Bet there would not be too many degrees in an engineer battalion.
I believe they do call them drivers in some places overseas, but we don’t use that name here.
One of the several meanings of the word Engineer is:: one who run an engine or an apparatus
Sorry !
Bangert1
If I were to take your shout literally, I could call myself a “Motor Vehicle Engineer.” After all, I do have a license!
Back about half a century ago, there was a great to-do about the relative number of engineers being licensed in the (former) Soviet Union versus the same statistic for the United States. Then someone noticed that a significant number were “sanitary engineers.” A quick check of the training and qualifications involved proved that they would have been called “plumbers” in the English-speaking world.
Another point to ponder - the US Navy rating who has hands-on control of the ship’s main engines (and is expected to perform at-sea repairs on same) is called a Machinist’s Mate. (Does that make the EOW a machinist?) Navy-ese for the rating who civilians would call a machinist is ‘metalsmith.’
Most of the credentialed engineers in the Corps of Engineers are DOD civilians. The grunts who do the work are not called engineers, any more than the file clerks in the university school of (fill in the blank) engineering are called engineers.
Fun, isn’t it
Chuck
In accident investigation reports from 1911 through the 1960’s, the ICC insisted on using the neologism “engineman” instead of “engineer”, although the latter term was otherwise in universal use. The commission reserved the title of engineer for its professional ‘experts’ and consultants with academic credentials. In a subsequent reversal of policy, investigation reports embraced “engineer” in place of “engineman” for operators of locomotives in order to accommodate feminist sensitivities. At the same time and for the same reason, reports began to refer to motormen as “operators”, a title historically reserved for those who copied and passed up train orders.
Of course “driver” is just a left-over term from the days of driving animals, it predates machinery like trains, cars, etc.
I’ve seen this thread for about two weeks now, but haven’t opened it. I did so today to see if anyone has given the obvious answer; because they’re near the engine. Hey, it’s raining where I am and I’m feeling a little goofty.