The Lake Street L did not move onto the C&NW right of way (west of Laramie only) until 1962 and provides more frequent service and more stops between the Loop and Harlem Avenue, which is the end of the line for the L. On the other hand, the C&NW West Line has less frequent off-peak service, has only one stop in Oak Park but continues west to Elburn in Kane County. C&NW also costs more to Oak Park then the CTA, which also serves Oak Park on the Congress line. While there are a fair number of riders between the Loop and Oak Park on the West Line, there are appreciably more riders on the Lake Street L.
I agree with all of that. Used to live in River Forest, so I know it intimately. That is exactly my point though. Commuter and El share rights of way and consist of 2 very different services of equal value. I’m not suggesting that because Metra stops in Oak Park that a route from only Oak Park to downtown would be viable…for metra. I’m talking about establishing an alternative to highway congestion right now, in the near term…or better yet, 10 years ago. Rather than bellyaching over a new bridge. All those years of Vancouver shooting down the MAX are wasted years that could have been better spent with a basic commuter service. 10 miles may not seem like much, but the I5 and I205 bridges add virtual miles to any rush hour trip.
Please allow me to re-state my position of river crossings in Portland, OR (PDX). I think all commercial river traffic, east of PDX is unnecessary, and too highly subsidized. The proposed bridge, for light rail and bicylists, is outrageous, unless they get a $5.00 toll from each bicycle, for each passage! 12’-0" lanes, in each direction? Get serious, Coneheads! Were there ever any tunnel proposals? For years, I did a 14.2 mile commute on the New York Central: Fleetwood, NY-GCT. Average trip: 29 minutes. Driving: almost an hour. Quality of life does count! Weld the bridge shut and be done with the squabbling! Have the FFVs drop anchor in Astoria.
BTW, going north on the Coast Starlight, from PDX, there was a real bad spot in the vicinity of VAN. Damned near threw me out of my berth! I wonder if they fixed it. Any feedback will be passed on to Warren and Matt.
Dugout Doug – Sorry, Sonny Boy, but it is time for you to get out-and-about and see the 'real world"! I live about 300 miles from the Columbia River and 781 rail-miles from PDX.
BNSF watcher, I don’t know where you live(it must be a secret) I have lived all of my almost 45 years in the greater Portland Metro area. For over 30 years from the time that I was 6 months old, my parents owned a Floating home on the Columbia, we spent almost every weekend(year-round) there plus many days during the week during the summer. I am a truck driver, my company’s plant is less than a mile from the river, and two of my “Bread & Butter” routes are to Nampa, ID and Spokane, Wa, often with deliveries in Lewiston, ID, as well as the Tri-Cities and Walla Walla. I do “get out and about and see the real world” especially a LOT of the Columbia River.
From what You have said, You may have more Experience on 8 Knot Monsters( as spoken by a Friend who grew up on sailboats, including a 42’ Ketch) but from the tone of your posts, I would say that I likely have spent more time on and around the Columbia, and am more familiar with the lower Columbia, than you will ever be. I wont even waste my time discussing the Pacific/Atlantic with a mind closed as tightly as yours.
Doug
BNSFWatcher, please look at a MAP and understand where the NP bridge is.
There is NO FOREIGN FLAG TRAFFIC EAST OF THE WILLAMETTE AND THE BRIDGE IS EAST OF THE WILLAMETTE.
You are not making a valid point here at all. You are mistaken as to the geography. The only traffic that that bridge opens for is grain shipments and similar US FLAGGED traffic.
Please review a map.
Okay. Sorry, again. I don’t know much about the area and how far the FFVs venture upstream, nor exactly how much it costs us to subsidize the barges. Methinks the barges should fit under the draw without opening it, but dunno. Please send me a nice salmon, via “Amtrak Express” on #28, the Empire Builder, and I’ll go away*.* Just ice it, a bit. It will be here in about 19 hours. Thanks!
Hays
Might be a bit difficult since Amtrak has virtually withdrawn from the express business.
“Amtrak Express” serves over 100 cities, including PDX (Portland, OR) and SBY (Shelby, MT) on regularly-scheduled trains. Weight limits do apply, to some stations, but I only want a salmon < 50#. My phone number is 406/434-2082 (required) so that they can call me when the fishie arrives. Got any good recipies? Thanks.
Hays
This is disappointing. Please restrain yourself from the urge to use ad hominem attacks.
As for New York City metropolitan area, the bridges blocking the waterways had always been a huge burden. The mass extinction of railroads in the late 1960s and early 1970s saw most of the troublesome bridges demolished in a bittersweet, fortunate coincidence. Comparing NYC to other cities is not a fair comparison as well, since the waterways are also much less busy than they were when these bridges were in the way.
I sent out a plea for salmon recipes. I have gotten a lot of replies, some that sound great. Contact me at wdh@mcn.net and I’ll forward them, if you are interested. One even suggests RED wine with the fish! That from Lovett Smith, owner of “NYC 3” (a.k.a. Portland)! Lovett is quite a cook, as well as the car owner. Of course, he is from New England, and has impeccable taste!
Hays, salivating in Shelberia!
Talking to the Transit advocates at Portland Union Station Yesterday at the festivities, I finally learned what the problem is.
The Columbia River Bridge is good for only 30MPH. This speed limit restricts the throughput on that bridge which why the line is at capacity.
This is speculation on my part. I would say that one thing comment on, most of the rails out of the Portland area are single track lines. And the line north to Seattle in addition to a lot of local lumber mill traffic handles a lot of traffic. It was originally(I think) the connection for 4 railroads(Union Pacific,Southern Pacific, Great Northern , Northern Pacific, & Seattle Portland & Spokane). Currently UP & BNSF still use the line very heavily. BNSF because it is a low grade from Seattle to Spokane.
Amtrak(I suspect) is lucky to get what they can. It is much easier to own your own tracks than to try to negotiate for trackage rights.
Also FRA is real touchy about letting light rail and heavy freight mix on the same trackage. As a result you can not mix the two on any heavily used line.
Rgds IGN