Why Does The Model Train Manufacturer Broadway Limited Imports Not Choose To use Better Decoders In Their Locomotives?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
41

[quote user=“gmpullman”]

rrinker
As for BLI - the name is pretty much a giveaway. They originally started to offer PRR models previous not available in plastic - their first 3 or 4 models were all PRR prototypes.

Part of that may have to do with the cooperation they get from the PRRT&HS for locomotive details and paint specifications, etc.

Similarly, Rapido is working closely with the New Haven Historical Society. It makes the research part of the job go much easier and If I’m not mistaken, the New Haven fellows put some of their own cash on the line to get models produced.

Broadway got into the business at the beginning of DCC and had several trial baloons for “Stealth” and Blue-Line runs so I’m sure their accountant knows where the return on investment lies.

They may not publicize their wiring diagrams but I have seen replies from their tech people where they have provided the pin-out of some of their decoders. I haven’t had any problems ringing out their wire assignments.

Admittedly, their smoke unit is something I have no use for and there sure is a lot of extra wiring going to that but it seems to be related to the “chuff synchronization” that drives the sub-miniature blower.

Try going to GM or Ford and telling them you want a car with standard shift, no AC, crank windows and just an AM radio. Ain’t gonna happen.

richhotrain
Fear not, Ed. All of us old timers got it.

42

Precisely. As I was saying, Im not supporting BLI’s choice of not selling DCC ready engines, just stating why they would do such a thing. What you said here is exactly what I was thinking.

And expecting BLI to produce engines of less prominance just isnt likely. Bachmann (a large company that has US, UK, and Chinese branches) gets away with doing it by producing them in large quantities, painting them in all sorts of fantasy schemes, and having prices set to attract more beginner mod

43

[quote user=“Trainman440”]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

John and Charles,

I don’t expect anything special from any manufacturer. The point is simple, if the they (any of them) make a product I am interested in, at a price and quality balance I am happy with, I will spend my money.

In 20 years, regarding steam, Bachmann has done a better job than Broadway as it relates to me.

There is no difference mechanically or detail wise that I can see between my 1st run N&W Class A and my BlueLine Class A. Just different electronics…which I removed.

I still think the manufacturers could solve this by simply making the full featured locos easily backwards convertable to silent DC.

I suspect Bachmann is doing larger runs, but still, tooling a Delta trailing truck, making different tender trucks, moving a headlight? Come on now.

And everyone can say what they want about the popularity of all the big, famous, flashy locos, but here is my question:

Bachmann sold me 10 USRA Heavy Mountains, not just one Big Boy.

They sold me 10 2-8-0’s, not just one Challenger.

They sold me 5 2-6-6-2’s, not just one N&W Y6b.

They sold me 5 2-8-4’s, not just one brass hybrid C&O J3a.

Who made more money???

Others commented that they will not buy BLI, I simply said little in their line is of interest, and what is, I mostly already have - bought cheap and rewired as needed.

Sheldon

Precisely. As I was saying, Im not supporting BLI’s choice of not selling DCC ready engines, just stating why they would do such a thing. What you said here is exactly what I was thinking.

And expecting BLI to produce engines of less prominance just isnt li

44

I got extemely lucky with my 2008 Colorado. Standard shift, crank windows, AM/FM radio. It does have A/C, this is Florida!

It was special ordered as a commercial truck for an auto parts jobber, but they went out of business, so I was able to buy a commercial version of the truck that was supposed to be fleet sale only.

[8-|]

-Kevin

45

A few points I missed:

Yes, a BLI brass hybrid is a step above anything Bachmann has done. And I would buy one and remove the decoder in a hot New York second. And I might just spring for a C&O J3a.

But by comparison, the Spectrum B&O EM-1 is better than most of the brass ones that have ever been done. And I model the B&O, and my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL is a road that logically would have had that kind of power.

Adding weight? My two BLI/PCM Reading T-1’s did benefit from some extra weight, more for balance than traction, to fill up the big hole in the smokebox left open for the future smoke unit…

Don’t take me wrong on this, most BLI steam is very nice except for these decoder problems you here about. But I don’t want DCC and sound, good decoder or bad decoder.

And they are not picking locos I have any need for or interest in for the most part.

I have said this before about BLI, MTH, Atlas, KATO - it does not matter how good they are if they do not make something you want to model.

I am not adjusting my modeling interests around the offerings of a few brands deemed to be “better”.

Especially not at a time like this in this hobby when there has been so much exceptional products from most brands in the last 15-20 years.

I remember a time before all these great products, when we were happy to detail an Athearn F7 and get it running smooth, or build a Bowser or Mantua steam loco and add some brass detail parts.

If you have only been in this hobby, or on this planet, for the last 20 years, you are spoiled by these great products. I know locomotive wise, I would never want to go back to pre 1990’s.

Again happy to have all this great product, from all the brands.

Sheldon

46

I would not doubt that Bachmann sold as many or more USRA Mountains than BLI sold Big Boys - but BLI is competing with 6 or 7 others ALSO selling Big Boys. I’d bet the total number of Big Boys sold overall by everyone offering them exceeds the sames of Bachmann’s USRA Maountain. And few if any of those Big Bioy purchases have 40"+ radius curves needed to make a Big Boy look remotely close to prototypical. But they all make them with 18" )and sometimes 22") radius as a design minimum. Too many compromises.

The larger scale ones are worse - I recently saay James Wright’s review of the Lionel O 3-rail Big Boy. I’m assuming the layout he ran it on was using standard O-31 curves - holy boiler overhang! And then he had it running with full length UP passenger cars (the Lionel model is 4014 of course, so he had a train set up to resemble what 4014 was pulling). Not only did the boiler swing out insanely far (as expected, O-31 curves are 31" DIAMETER, about the same as 15" radius HO!) but the passenger cars were INSIDE the inner rail on curves. OK, some people don’t care about that, and hi-rail is a completely different market, but the loco is pretty well detailed and then runs on such tight curves and looks like a true toy. But an HO Big Boy running on 18 or 22" radius curves doesn’t look much better. But that doesn’t stop anyone, as long as it runs.

What we had when I was a kid wasn;t much better - heck, we even had TYCO railroad locos. And then Santa Fe, NYC, V&T locos. Couple of B&O. It was all Tyco, Life Like, and some AHM models. It’s what we could afford.

–Randy

47

The hobby is changing whether we like it or not. Twenty years ago, my friends at the time all had layouts with scenery, and one even had a feature article about his layout published in MR.

Now, my friends keep accumulating trains but don’t have much–or in some cases any–layout at all. I actually have a layout with very basic desert scenery (cat ate other scenery), and I invite them over to run their trains whenever they feel like it. The one’s main layout is O-gauge and all he did is roll out the green mat and plop some nice pre-assembled buildings on it. That is the extent of his scenery.

You would not believe the amount of money I’m seeing the younger guys spending at the train store. In the area where I live, the Lionel stuff is still selling like hotcakes. There is a good following for Lionel. In HO, all the Heritage NS units sold very well–all the store could get their hands on–just sold and sold.

People are coming in and buying the latest greatest thing in diesel, but they also want the big steam power. They just buy whatever they like, so yeah, they’re just collectors, but they are the ones spending a lot of money, and way more than me.

I think trying to focus on just one railroad is making me the dinosaur.

John

48

That’s what I consider when I hear of people buying locomotives and never taking them out of the box. Someday in the future when these engines finally get to touch live rail will BLI still be around to honor the warranty or will there be parts to repair them?

How many hot motors or bad decoders are sitting in someone’s closet that won’t be discovered as faulty for another decade or two?

Regards, Ed

49

I am going to cast my vote for BLI as an excellent manufacturer of steam locomotives.

As I look at my steam roster, most of my steamers are BLI with two Proto Heritage and one Bachman Spectrum. At one time, I had a lot of Bachmann Spectrum steamers, but I dumped them all on eBay, as I considered them inferior to BLI.

My BLI roster is mostly Paragon with a few Paragon 2 locos mixed in. I have avoided Paragon 3 because of the reported decoder problems.

Rich

50

So I would be interested to know which models you have and why they appeal to you, quality issues, good or bad aside.

I understand you are primarily modeling a multi railroad passenger terminal and that would require a different mix compared to my modeling which only includes three interchanges with roads otger than my ATLANTIC CENTRAL.

Sheldon

51

Correct, I am modeling a multi-railroad passenger terminal - Dearborn Station - ATSF, Erie, Wabash, Monon, GTW, C&EI and C&WI. But, this is strictly an all-diesel facility in the late 1950s - 1970s. No steamers dare enter the station lead tracks.

Because I am a sucker for steam, I have a peninsula devoted in part to steam, a roundhouse, turntable and coaling tower as part of an engine servicing facility shared by diesel locos.

The steamers pull freight around the perimeter of my layout shared by the diesel powered passenger trains on a double mainline, in part a 4-track mainline to replicate the old C&WI mainline that ran from Dolton IL to Chicago.

Sort of a mixture between simulating the prototype and freelancing to explan the presence of steam. Since all roads led to Chicago (and pretty much still do) in the 1950s and beyond, I felt that I could get away with all of these liberties on my new layout. Certainly not for the purists an

52

I am debating whether to post on this thread, start a new thread, or just PM you, Sheldon.

I hate to take this thread off-topic.

Rich

53

PM or another thread, I am very interested in your operational scheme. As a freelance modeler blending in three prototype roads, my thinking is likely similar.

Sheldon

54

Sheldon, check your PMs.

Rich

55

I have a BLI NW2 and it derails at one spot that no other engine dose and only going forward. This is a well documented problem with this engine and I dont see an easy fix. The problem is the machining was slightly off and dose not happen with larger radius turnouts or broader curves. Will not buy any more BLI. I have had problems before with other engines but they were all user fixable.

56

A new thread would be nice. Even though I have not been posting here, I have been following this thread and would probably enjoy your other conversation as well.

-Kevin

57

[quote user=“ATLANTIC CENTRAL”]

Charles,

OK, I get those points, but your are cherry picking some info there.

While the Bachmann 2-8-0 is “freelanced”, if you compare prototype photos for many/most of those “fantasy” paint schemes, you see that they picked roadnames where their loco was a pretty good stand it, B&O and WESTERN MARYLAND for example.

And what about the USRA Pacific and Mike? Bachmann can make the headlights, trailing trucks, and tenders right enough, but Broadway won’t? I only bought the two Mikes and one Pacific I have from Broadway because I wanted the “heavy” design. I replaced the trailing trucks with Athearn parts and the tenders with Bachmann parts.

True, newer releases have not had “fancy” drive lines with sprung drivers or bearings, some did. In my 50 plus years experiance, those features are not always that important. Bowser steam locos, Mantua steam locos, Vaney steam locos all ran very well, many are still running, without bearings or sprung drivers. Those locos just lacked detail and model accuracy.

And better features mean nothing without good quality control - like the two BLI Mikes I had to rebuild. Having 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steamers of various wheel arrangements and 7 BLI steamers of various wheel arrangements, I don’t see any real difference in mechanical performance between the two brands.

BLI only attracts the more experianced modelers of that short list of roadnames…

But of course I come from a time and place in this hobby when people build or modified models to make them better or more correct for their needs. I still do that, even with BLI models.

Just like Athearn finally went to LED’s, Bachmann has moved on to better colors - old news.

Outdated dies? Not sure I get that one. A decent piece of tooling is a decent piece of tooling regardless of age. There is great tooling still in use in this industry that is as old as me. I

58

Hello John,

Forgive me if I have not commented yet on the comments on my post, as I am a bit overwhelmed of how it took off. I have come to realize that I appriciate the smaller steam locomotives as well as the larger ones.

I am aware of Rapidos concerns with their smaller steam engines maybe not being able to sell, altough I do hope with time, luck and a few good circumstances to see the rest come into fruition, being the rest of the Canadian steam locomotives on their list.

59

Maybe they just needed enough feedback to carry out this change? I am glad they did as of now.

60

[quote user=“Trainman440”]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Charles,

OK, I get those points, but your are cherry picking some info there.

While the Bachmann 2-8-0 is “freelanced”, if you compare prototype photos for many/most of those “fantasy” paint schemes, you see that they picked roadnames where their loco was a pretty good stand it, B&O and WESTERN MARYLAND for example.

And what about the USRA Pacific and Mike? Bachmann can make the headlights, trailing trucks, and tenders right enough, but Broadway won’t? I only bought the two Mikes and one Pacific I have from Broadway because I wanted the “heavy” design. I replaced the trailing trucks with Athearn parts and the tenders with Bachmann parts.

True, newer releases have not had “fancy” drive lines with sprung drivers or bearings, some did. In my 50 plus years experiance, those features are not always that important. Bowser steam locos, Mantua steam locos, Vaney steam locos all ran very well, many are still running, without bearings or sprung drivers. Those locos just lacked detail and model accuracy.

And better features mean nothing without good quality control - like the two BLI Mikes I had to rebuild. Having 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steamers of various wheel arrangements and 7 BLI steamers of various wheel arrangements, I don’t see any real difference in mechanical performance between the two brands.

BLI only attracts the more experianced modelers of that short list of roadnames…

But of course I come from a time and place in this hobby when people build or modified models to make them better or more correct for their needs. I still do that, even with BLI models.

Just like Athearn finally went to LED’s, Bachmann has moved on to better colors - old news.

Outdated dies? Not sure I get that