Like the 70s Chevy commercials expression of “hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet”, what happened with Lionels place in America where it used to dominate christmas scenes, around the tree and store displays. Did they get too expensive or was it a fad of the 40s and 50s? Did they lose quality? Was it slot car tracks in the 60s? Was it Lionel going cheaper in the 70s? On TV as I type this is a Tim Allen movie I think one of the ones he turns into Santa. A christmas scene had a cheapy plastic off brand or maybe Bachman G scale size train. And was it about 20 years ago the first “Home Alone” movie when he mounted the human cutouts on the operating train, and the train was G scale? Maybe a Lionel train wouldn’t handle those cutouts in that movie. Trains have plenty to compete with these days with all the high tech video games, an endless amount of information and connectivity with the rest of the world via the web. There is also the more and more school activities that some parents push their kids into. Could Lionel make a train that has lots of operating cars that you could control the entire train via your home computer?
Boyd, don’t know the answers to all that, but some people do operate their layouts with computer - I’ve seen some on TV train shows.
As for me, I like handling the cars and accessories, even the derails. So does my grandson. He loves playing with the automobiles & trucks, too. Running the crane car, sawmill, & others is a hands on game for most of us.
wyomingscout
A Lionel train will dominate our Christmas tree this year just as it has in the past.
Earl
Most kids today are far too absorbed into electronic gizmo’s and video games than to be “bored” with watching toy trains go around in circles. I think some would say it takes too much effort to interact with such a thing…its just really a shame. I live the simple life and i am glad i do.
While I agree with what you say, a certain amount of the “blame” goes with Lionel as well. When they reintroduced the line in the 1970’s it appeared to me that they deliberately decided to ignore the mass market. All of their train sets were “Special Editions” and priced accordingly. As if they were deliberately marketing directly to the toy train collector, probably on the assumption that “kids today are far to absorbed in eletronic gizmo’s”. You could only find their train sets at hobby shops, or through MRR related publications. Only within the last 5 years or so have I begun to see their sets in mass market outlets like HobbyLobby and various local hardware stores.
Electric Trains are still part of the Christmas Tradition for a very small percentage of the American population. The last couple generations have been brought up with electronic games and hardware that has nothing to do with electric trains, just the way it is. IMO, as our generation fades away the Electric Train Christmas Tradition will continue to shrink.
That is absolutely untrue. Modern Era Lionel had mass market sets in every catalog. They hired Johnny Cash to advertise their trains. The first “special editions” were the gold Chessie GP-7 and the B&O F3. I don’t recall whether the F3 was advertised as a limited edition, the gold Chessie certainly was. General Mills purchased Lionel because they thought the time was right for Lionel to make a comeback. From what I see on the various boards, many of today’s “O” gauge fans got their start with MPC trains. And I see lots of mass market MPC stuff being offered on Ebay, with the sellers claiming the items to be family train sets.
In our early years of marriage we had very little money but I had a lionel train that santa had brought. It ran under the tree every christmas, a couple plasticville building and no gifts. But the train was there and that made it christmas anyway.
Todays world has changed where toy trains don’t mean much to kids or even many parents who grew up with other types of entertainment.
The charisma of a Lionel train around the Christmas tree has been with me since 1949. It is a part of Christmas.
I think the values have changed with the newer generation. They would rather “text-message” under the tree.
As with Chevrolet…" Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet" was a big slogan for many years. I think GM missed the ball on that one, big time. Maybe the new " Company" will do better.
60 years of Facts.
60 years ago the general public TOOK THE TRAIN, to work, to visit relatives, to go on vacation! Kids and parents, on board trains, going somewhere, it was fun. To have a (Lionel) toy train extended the joy long after the trip. Lionel understoud that if they promoted Railroading and Railfaning, then the buying of toy trains followed. In 1955 the Turnpikes and Interstate Highways started to take away the short haul and commuter traffic. In 1958 the Jet Airliner (707 & DC8) took away the long haul travel. The passenger railroad died, and with it the contact between the public, the children, and the railroads.
Today many of you never see a Passenger Train, others maybe once a day. Sorry, Passenger Service may never return to your area. A few densely populated sections of this country has a “rebirth” of railroad passenger service. In these areas, with growing traffic jams, Commuter Rail Service is growing fast, lines are being extended, lines out of service for 30 years are being rebuilt. Interstate Passenger Service by Amtrk becomes clean, fast, and frequent. I live in the Northeast, I can drive 35 miles and watch passenger trains, 4 or 5 or more an hour. Some Commuter Rail, some Regional, some Acela Bullet Trains, and all those people riding and the people watching are potential customers for toy and model trains.
What goes around comes around!
It wasn’t until I re-entered the toy-train hobby as an adult that I learned of the tradition of running trains around a Christmas tree. Somehow, it never came up when I was a kid. I put a simple loop on the carpet now at Christmas.
Some of the best passenger railroading is happening in the least populated part of the country. The Alaska Railroad (not Amtrak) runs daily trains between Fairbanks and Anchorage (weekly in winter), through spectacular scenery and past Denali. The depot in Fairbanks has to be seen to be believed. It was even built to include an HO layout run by a local club.
What Don U. posts, about people taking train rides for trips, or to work and which caused an exitement for some, or most people to want electric model trains, makes sense to me.
I remember our excitement when my father took my brother and me to see prototype trains and later the three of us had fun playing with father’s Lionel prewar ‘027’ gauge trains.
My family runs a Lionel train around our Christmas tree annually and a couple of Christmases ago, our daughter and her family ordered from Santa a Lionel, ‘0’ gauge, ‘North Pole Central Lines’ train set, which is now the family Christmas tree train.
Ralph
While growing up my father always had his prewar childhood Lionel set up at Christmas. Never any fear of any of us damaging it of breaking. It was there for us all to enjoy and have fun “playing” with it. Once married I continued the tradition even before my kids were born, when it was only my wife and I. My wife bought a early post war “starter” set up from a local neighbor that was selling his collection. He gave her an awesome deal since we were “not collectors looking to buy his trains to sell and make money”. Well after my kids were born the tradition has continued. Now my kids are grown and my daughter got married a little over a year ago. Last year she asked me if I have enough “extra” so that here and her husband could have a train around their tree. Let me tell you…what ever I didn’t have, I was going to get for her! I am sure the tradition will continue with her (psst…first grandchild’s set is already in the closet! Now just need the grand baby! wish Mom and Dad would get “busy”!)
All we can do is pass on the tradition and hope it will get passed on.
Lionel doesn’t dominate Christmas SALES any more for the same reason that nobody has those clockwork VWs with the big key sticking out of the rear. Likewise, how many operating Studebakers are tooling along the Interstate highway network that was barely started when the mark curled up and died?
Some companies go with the flow and change with the changing times (Pilliod makes furniture instead of Baker valve gear parts) - and some don’t. Lionel-size 0-gauge electric trains went out of fashion as Christmas gifts, replaced by other items which, in turn, have gone out of fashion. Will they ever return to their once-high level of popularity? Not unless somebody cancels the silicon revolution.
FWIW, I gave my grandson a large-scale Lionel train for Christmas. He played with it for a while, before going back to his fire trucks. (His mother, my daughter, is a Nashville Metro firefighter-paramedic.)
Chuck (Operating real tinplate in a full-scale manner)
Many places still have Christmas layouts. Recent store fronts such as Bloomingdale’s, Macy’s, etc. in NYC have had such. Also, they have a spectacular layout as a seasonal special at Grand Central in NY (ask Roy about that one). So, trains are around, and become evident in a lot of places around the holidays. Sets like the Polar Express and Hogwarts Express are attempts from Lionel to hit the next generation for trains. While we don’t see trains on every Christmas show, or in the number of stores and homes like they used to be, it raises a challenge for us to share our hobby and introduce a kid to a train.
Dennis
This has been an interesting thread so far. While times have changed, as far as the average person’s everyday connection to real trains, there are other more profound circumstances.
Certainly it is not entirely the fault of Lionel itself. As pointed out, Lionel MPC did mass market trains and I recall seeing an extensive array of Lionel trains and accessories for sale at K-Mart duing the 1970’s. Richard Kughn also tried to break into that market… take a look at the 1992-1993 Lionel catalogs in particular.
Adult buyers who remember the best of the postwar period tend to be a little harsh on the MPC-period of Lionel. Certainly there were cost-cutting measures, but the trend of more plastic was common-place in toys made during the same time. People tend to forget there were some very cheap sets made during the postwar years too, going head to head against the low cost MARX trains.
But I’m surprised no one has mentioned another trend. By conservative estimates, 40% of kids in American today grow-up in a single parent household, usually the mother. Some of the most ardent feminists of the 1960’s and 1970’s have done 180 degree changes in their opinions on marriage, but it hasn’t changed things.
It has also been a long on-going trend that both parents (of the kids who are lucky enough to have both still married) are both working full-time outside the home. A big change from the postwar years so many of us grew-up in where only dad worked. And if mom did work, chances are it was at school or something of the like where she could be home when the kids got home.
It’s little surprise to me that toy makers have followed this trend of making toys that have become “electronic babysitters” to keep the kids amused while either dad and/or only mom are at work. Or at home because they’re too tired or have to catch up on all the things around the house to do.
Then
Is the original question, why aren’t Christmas train scenes common anymore, or is it why are G size trains used instead of Lionel O?? If the latter, I think it’s just a matter of size. The big size trains show up better on TV and in movies because they’re…well, BIG. People who know nothing about trains would recognize a big G steam engine going around the tree, where a Lionel train might not show up as well.
I’ve seen someone from Bachmann come on QVC a few times (usually around Xmas) selling model trains. It could be Bachmann does a better “outreach” job, connecting with the studios and providing trains to their productions.
Well if Lionel doesn’t dominate Christmas any more, it isn’t because I haven’t tried hard enough[:D]
I add a TREE to my Trains every Year
I have SPOILED my Nephews Horribly
This one’s Daddy is from New York, so being a Little Devious, his growing collection is NYC.
These two’s Daddy is a Fireman/Paramedic in Canby, OR so Uncle Doug spoils them with Trains, everyone else makes up for it with the Firetrucks. The Older one’s growing collection is Santa Fe, the younger one’s growing collection is Union Pacific (Hey they gave him my name for his middle name) It is hard to see, but that is his Lionel Docksider that he is holding. Note for Kids give them LOTS of Gondolas, Hoppers and some Flat Cars. Their Daddy collects Great Northern.
My Sisters kidded me that the “Boys” all have trains, so they need their own, being from Portland, OR, the 4449’s Hometown (since 1957 anyway) I got them each an MTH Bantam Daylight Passenger set.
I had given my then Girlfriend(now wife) and her kids some Lionel for their Tree, and last year, I was told that when Granda Pa Huey saw them, his immediate reaction was a BIG SMILE[:D], and Fire em’ up!!, so I am already picking out a nice set from my collection for my new In Laws for this Christmas.
I have given sets to each of my Step- Brother and Step-Sister’s families with additions each Christmas, my Step-Sister moved to Hawaii last year, OUCH, I had no idea that it would co
I, and most of our friends, live in apartments. Space is at a premium. Some of us “empty nesters” have built layouts in now vacant bedrooms. The tradition that we grew up with, like seeing the Lionels around our Christmas Tree, seems to have faded into the train room. (I do not miss “woofie” running off with and hiding a car, pet hair between the wheels or my accidently stepping on the engine with my “big” feet.)
As I recall, when I was a youngster, Lionel and Marx, had less competition with the then modern technology. An electric train…wow! Imagine, operate a train in your own home, just llike the 3rd Avenue El, subway or the LIRR. You could even run the train and listen to the radio at the same time.
Only my [2c]: Times change. Will Lionel, once again, dominate Christmas scenes. Probably not. And if they never do again, is it so bad? The hobby will endure whether it is Lionel or another brand. That, to me , is the most important issue.
Cant imagine Christmas without a K-Line Lionel train under the tree.
Lionel needs to do more and get off their butt, we cant do all their promotion for them. I feel K-Line with all their faults did more to promote the hobby. I just dont feel that excitement any more. Lionel does little to keep my interest going, its more just a habit that I default to the Lionel legend.