Recently I purchased Roundhouse Passenger cars that regularly uncoupled on a 2% grade. A search found that they uncouple under stress (long trains or grades) and need to be replaced with Kadee. There are other products that do not use Kadee and cause the modeler similar problems. The information is easily found so why don’t the manufacturers fix the problem? [soapbox]
Its all about the money. The plastic knock-offs are no doubt cheaper for the manufacturers. It hasn’t been too long ago that all cars came with X2f (NMRA) couplers. Now at least you get knuckle couplers. I change out everything to Kadees. For a few dollars a car, spare yourself the aggravation.
They may have saved a few dollars on the couplers but I won’t be purchasing those any more. There are several choices that come with Kadee’s. Not sure how much they saved [*-)]
I completely agree with you as I do the same on all my purchases, locos or cars. But I also agree with the OP. When I buy a loco on the 250$ + price bracket or a RTR car which can cost over 45$, I just don’t understand why I don’t get the best couplers one can get… Kadees. I would certainly agree to pay a few dollars more not to have to change the couplers myself with the risq to broke small delcate parts. I have to pay for them anyway.
You know, the standard Kadees are a little too big. The couplers Athern uses (probably now on the Roundhouse line also) seem to work or most situation. Yep, I too have a climbing curve where the Bombardier commuter cars uncouple.
Maybe the scale look has something to do with it.
If the problem occurs at the beginning or end of a grade, it may have nothing to do with the couplers. Just like with (horizontal) curve mininmum radius, there is also a vertical curve min R that is less often discussed but also important.
If the vertical curve transition to the grade is too abrupt, longer cars tend to uncouple. Is this only happening with longer cars? That’s a good sign the problem is vertical curve related. Watch closely as the cars go up the grade. If they uncouple at the same spot as the line transitions from flat to the grade, then it’s the track/roadbed that needs work.
Not that Kadees won’t improve things, but they can’t fix your track if that’s the issue.
The scale head Kadees will definitely show the limits of your vertical curves. Mostly, they worked when I tried them, but on a few longer cars with the #58, they would uncouple at a couple of my transitions. Changed them back to #5 and they were fine. Why?
The vertical curve limitations were the problem.
The #58 has a shorter face vertically, so there less to couple to the next car. As grtades and transitions make the coupler move vertically, it’s more likely to slip past the adjoined coupler and come apart.
That sounds like a cut of your nose to spite your face type of solution. Considering there are still are major brands that come with plastic clones, including Athearn, Athearn Genesis, Atlas, to name a few.
So I ask, why deny yourself otherwise very good products just because of couplers. Thats like D&RGW or SP fan refusing to buy Athearn tunnel motors because they come with plastic clones! Heck, model railroaders have been changing out couplers for a long long time. A better solution is to buy some bulk packs of Kadee’s and change out the plastic clones.
For sure. Standard KD’s are a bit large but the advantage is they are more forgiving where track work is concerned, or where vertical changes in track exagerate the coupler mismatch - especially on longer cars like autoracks, passenger cars or 89’ TOFC flat cars. You could get the “shelf” type couplers that are used on tank cars to keep cars together too, although if you are hung up on correctness of appearance and scale size, then you will need to have excellent trackwork and make sure all your couplers are dead-nuts on the Kadee height gauge.
Sure, Athearns plastic couplers look closer to prototype but that doesn’t do you any good if they come uncoupled a lot, which they do. Maybe they are ok for a static display model but for operations, Kadee has no peers, other than maybe the Walthers Proto metal couplers.
Try using Kadees shelf couplers for tank cars (#119?). My clubs members who run long passenger cars love them.
Why would they use Kadees. Though they are great, some people prefer others for varius reasons. For me I find the off brands generally work just fine and will replace them if they break with Kadee’s (because I have over 50 pair of #5 I got at a meet for cheap as they changed to something else).
There are several reasons why non-Kadees are found on most (but not all) RTR models from the factory (InterMountain, for example, always uses Kadees).
Kadee does not give disounts to manufacturers. Manufacturers have to pay full retail for Kadees just like you or me (currently $1.60 per car for #5’s), then they’d have to ship them to China and have them put on the models. When the models arrive, they will now have the extra $1.60 on the price from the manufacturer, which means by the time you get to the retail price (after getting through the wholeseller), it will be more like $3.00. It’s cheaper to just buy the Kadees and put them on yourself.
For those that think that manufacturers should just eat the expense, remember that a typical run is around 3000 units these days. Just for the cost of Kadees, that’s $4800. Would you want to give up $4800?
Another reason is that many modelers don’t want the “fat” #5’s, they want the semi-scale #58’s. Some don’t want either and use Sergent couplers. So are customers going to spend more for couplers they don’t want?
It is simply cheaper (for both manufacturer and consumer) and easier to put on a plastic knock off than it is to install Kadees at the factory.
Why? Peace of mind and reliabilty are the two biggest reasons. People get tired of plastic couplers failing or not staying coupled or what have you. It can make the difference in some cases of a car coming off a layout and getting ruined.
I haven’t nearly as much running as some people and have found especially the couplers on Athearn and Athearn Genesis to give false uncouplings all too often - to me it’s a no brainer to replace the couplers Athearn supplies.
The Accumate couplers so far haven’t been as problematic in that way but they simply look more crude and don’t couple as smoothly as Kadee’s so they are on my replace agenda too but the Athearn plastic couplers being the worst offenders are higher priority.
I find it telling that most of the better brands offer rolling stock WITH Kadee’s, namely BLMA, ExactRail, Intermountain, Moloco, Tangent, Wheels of Time and of course Kadee’s own RTR rolling stock. I may have missed some such as Fox Valley and I noticed my Bowser RTR hoppers came with Kadee’s although I don’t buy much Bowser so I’m not sure if Kadee is standard on RTR Bowser now. Mainly Atlas and Athearn are the big hold outs these days, and a few others.
Still, I realize you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time, so even some customers of the above brands change out the semi-scale Kadee’s with #5 type
Don’t expect Athearn (Horizon) to change coupler designs anytime soon. Athearn bought McHenry back in 2006.
Horizon Hobby, exclusive distributor of Athearn and Roundhouse model railroad products, has added McHenry Couplers to its product line. McHenry’s operations will be managed from Carson, Calif., where Horizon’s other model railroad lines are based.
Robert Staat, McHenry’s president, is excited about the company’s future with Horizon. “I look forward to doing what I enjoy most; designing new products,” Staat said. “By combining the strengths of both of our companies, the real winners will be our many loyal customers.”
Athearn president Tim Geddes added, “McHenry Couplers joins Athearn and Roundhouse as another example of good quality and high-value products that Horizon is committed to bringing to the market. McHenry Couplers add value to many of Athearn’s locomotives and rolling stock, and we look forward to continuing the relationships Bob has built with other manufacturers.”
I’ve got a Bluebox full of McHenrys, Accumates and all other plastic couplers. Don’t know why I’m saving them, maybe it’s like the ball of string thing?
I’m not sure but I think Accumate is owned or produced by Atlas and Bachmann (EZ Mate) has their own line of plastic couplers, so they’re not going to go away anytime soon.
It doesn’t stop me from buying a model from any of these manufacturers but I do give it consideration when choosing. I know when I buy a Genesis locomotive it will have to have the Tsunami ripped out, the cheap incandescent lamps replaced AND the slippery-engineering-plastic couplers tossed.
regards, Ed
When I got into HO model railroading in the mid '50s, all of my locos and rolling stock, courtesy of my Dad (who wasn’t a model railroader), came with Kadees, in those days, the K-type. I simply carried on adding Kadees as I acquired more trains. I was quite disappointed when Kadee introduced the #5, with the ungainly-looking curved uncoupling pin which was much more noticeable than the straight pin used on the mechanically-actuated Ks. For a while, I simply clipped them off, but eventually relented when I built my own layout and installed a few magnets. I still don’t like the look of them though, and if I didn’t have so much rolling stock, would convert to Sergents.
The Kadees do work well, and I was especially pleased when Kadee finally came out with their own plastic couplers (long before the plastic knock-offs appeared), which eliminated fried knuckle springs on metal-framed cars with improperly-oriented insulated wheels in metal trucks.
The only plastic knock-offs with which I’ve had trouble were those that replaced the coil-type metal knuckle spring with a flat, plastic leaf-type spring, and they were changed out for Kadees before the cars went on the layout. I’ve recently been installing Kadee’s “scale” couplers on new stuff as I build it, and have changed a number of older cars and locomotives to them, too.
With Kadee #5s (and all of their others with the same size head), I seldom worry too much about coupler height as long as that ugly “air hose” is adjusted so that it doesn’t catch on grade crossings or turnouts. The scale couplers, however, are less forgiving and quickly point out the older cars with improper coupler heights.
Most of th
I have some prototype photos showing coupler heights which vary almost as much as in Wayne’s model photo.
Wayne and others might remember when guys started to twist the Kadee “air hose” backwards so it would be less visible (maybe I really mean, less annoying), yet still do its job over a magnet. It didn’t work equally well on all cars.
Dave Nelson
The only coupler I don’t replace with KDs is Walthers Protomax II since they are all metal with a knuckle spring like KD. uses in fact they look like and operate as well as KD#5s.
The junk couplers goes into file 13.
Interesting viewpoints. All I’m saying is if there charging $50-70 for rolling stock the models should work. BTW, I’d be happy to pay $3 or $4 more.
While I agree that a high-end model should have high-end couplers, the reality is that Athearn/Roundhouse & McHenry(those plastic couplers) are owned by Horizon Hobbies. They are going to use the cheap plastic couplers because they own them.
Now, if Athearn would go to LED’s for headlights, I would be happier!
Jim
I have never met a coupler I couldn’t deal with to R&R quickly, although I’ve heard of a couple of notorious examples that are difficult if RTR because of the methods used.
All those little lights you pay big bucks for…a far more frustrating story as they slowly blink out.
LEDs…because it’s the 21st century.