There have been many lamentations on these forums over the years about the demise of local hobby shops (LHS) and blaming the Internet for their failure. But sometimes it seems to be self-inflicted. A case in point:
There’s only one LHS remaining in Tucson, Arizona that sells trains. Over the past few years they have offered a 5% discount to club members, and would gladly take special orders. Well, new management has apparently taken over who seems determined to drive them out of business.
After years of being in a rather cramped corner of an Ace Hardware store, they moved into new digs in January and were able to expand their selection. In early May they announced that the 5% club discount would no longer be offered. Two weeks later they announced that special orders must now be fully paid in advance.
With Tucson being a 70-mile one-way drive from us, nearly all members of our local club have said we will now do our shopping on the Internet and let UPS do the driving. In the past, many of us have patronized this LHS in the hope of seeing it remain in business, but the motivation for seeing them succeed has been seriously degraded by their new policies.
We get a 10% discount for our club. That is so sad about your LHS. We are pretty lucky here since there are many within a couple hours drive and several within 30 minutes or less. Most of the good ones around here also sell over the internet and really concentrate on trains with 2,000 to 6,000 sq ft. So, they make it worth the drive.
You might want to see if Walther’s will set you up as a reseller if you have enough volume in your club? Horizon requires a brick and mortar store, so they are trying to keep the LHS alive.
They may have put themselves into a bind by increasing their fixed costs for the new shop without increasing revenue, or having a serious plan of how to do it. My LHS offers 10 or 15% off to the regulars and club members. (I became a regular when I was given this discount on my first purchase.) He also takes special orders by e-mail, and I pay when I go to pick it up.
At the same time, I help the shop by always paying in cash, even if it means a trip to the ATM beforehand. Debit and credit cards charge a fee to the seller for each transaction, so by cutting the bank out I give the shop a break without having it cost me anything.
Ya I suspect hobby shops are generally running on a thin line between making a profit or not, so any new expenses are going to be a potential problem. Growing up I used to walk to Hub Hobby in Richfield MN, when it was located in the Hub Shopping Center (strip mall) in the middle of town. At some point in the eighties, the management of the mall decided that all the business had to get new signs - they would install the signs, whether the store wanted it or not. For Hub Hobby, it amounted to several thousand dollars, which they couldn’t afford. The owning partners ended up splitting into two - one partner moved opened a new hobby shop on the east side of town, and the other owner moved Hub Hobby to the west side of town where it still is today.
Yes, I’d say most LHS’s close due to self inflicted causes. I’ve been to more than I can hope to count during my travels all over the US, working out of town in many states and making it a point to visit 2 or 3 shops in most cities I traveled to for work.
I almost never buy from hobby shops which sell at or near MSRP; you simple don’t need to. Blame mail order, blame the internet, blame blame blame. As long as the hobbiest has mulitple options, the LHS selling at or near MSRP is on the road to closing, it’s just a matter of time.
The brick and mortar stores which stay open now are the ones which combine traditional sales with web sales etc. Of course this topic has been beat to death hasn’t it.
From what I’ve seen in this forum, the reason hobby shops fail is they don’t stock every item in the walthers catalog, give 50% discounts, and have VIP sales associates for every customer.
I don’t think so. I know your question was rhetorical, but it deserves a little consideration. I wrote something similar when a long time LHS started getting out of the business here–after many generations. And that’s the point–loyalty, verification, conversation, community, etc all of this adds up over the decades and when something is taken away that was/is important to you–it matters. And therefore I don’t think for several reasons, we should stop beating this very dead horse–imho.
I agree with Richard…When something ends that is part of our lives then we should be able to discuss it.
I miss the old days when the faithful gathered at the LHS every Saturday morning where lasting friendships was made,new models displayed(and bought),modeling techniques and layouts were discuss…Inventions to visit a layout or join in on their operation night was given.
Today most of that comradeship has been lost to the cold and flat modeling forums where everybody is nameless and faceless…
Righteo. The above will never happen and I know your point is the ideal world will never exist so just shut up. BUt IMO, you don’t give many of us much credit by oversimplifying and turning this into a characature of what people want but can’t have in their “idealized word”. But most intelligent and “aware” people know that hobby shops can exist AND satisfy customers if they are run intelligently and adapt to the market. Those who can’t close, those who can may continue on. Personally I would don’t have any illusions about it being an easy job anymore, and I don’t envy these people.
Still this should be a topic that can be discussed in a mature way and not locked by the moderators.
I live about 4 miles from my LHS in Flint, but I choose to make most of my purchases at a shop about 30 miles away for three reasons - selection, price and helpful service. When any shop, I don’t care what they are selling, loses focus of these three things then I simply won’t patronize them any longer. Granted a typical shop can’t stock the Walthers catalog, but I would expect to see some different items from time to time instead of the same thing all the time. In terms of price, some of you mentioned about receiving a discount - the LHS has never offered me anything even when I was spending mega bucks. I don’t expect discounts but from time to time it would be nice to receive something for my business. Finally, service - the ‘train guy’ at the LHS is rude and rarely if ever asks he can help me find something. He also isn’t well informed about product lines and sits in front of his computer by the hour. Give me good selections, fair prices and decent service and you will see me every week. Scrimp on those and I am looking elsewhere including on line.
It is a dynamic and inter-dependent relationship. What one does affects the other directly. If a store raises prices, it is because their revenue has been insufficient to pay their bills and living or desirable wage. Or, that is the perception and determination of the proprietor. However, the other part of the team is also bringing to the dynamic his/her own contribution of effect. The customer also acts in ways to cause the business owner to adjust his/her own behaviour. Some of them may behave in a number of ways that force the business owner to adjust prices, or to reduce stock, or to insist upon advance orders being paid in full.
Businesses close because they are no longer viable. It may be something that the owner does or fails to do, but it is just as likely to be something the customer does or fails to do.
It is so very nice to read all the know-it-all comments on this and other online forums regarding the pricing structure of the LHS, and why it should be this or that, or else we’re going to buy online and put the local dealer out of business… After all, we “modelers” or would-be “modelers” are so infinitely more knowledgeable about the costs and business side of this hobby than the dealers, most of whom who are simply trying to make an honest living at it. After all–they’re all just greedy hogs and don’t need to pay for their own health insurance because the government is going to provide it for everyone, right?
Anyone who has ever worked in a fine train only store has a much greater appreciation of the realities of the business than most of the whiners on internet forums. The whiners on internet forums don’t see the costs of health insurance skyrocketing on the train stores. The whiners on internet forums don’t see the actual lease or ownership costs of the store, the actual (nowadays ever shrinking due to increased distributor margins) profit margins of the merchandise or the actual utility bills.
I politely suggest you go build a model or run a train rather than whine about the economics of the LHS. The ones that remain are doing the best they can, and bashing them online or pontificating about why their pricing structure is absurd is utterly useless.
Fine train stores make up for the price margin by also providing exemplary customer service. Last time I checked, that never ended. The real customers know they are paying for the service when they need it.
Larry–I mean no disrespect–there are still fine train stores where all the Saturday morning activities of the past still go on.
John, for most of my life, I have never been able to “afford” the “service” (ie, the near MSRP prices). Thats fine if you have the disposable income to pay for this luxury, but many folks are just getting by so “service” is a luxury to them. Perhaps you and a few of your associates have been blessed with good financial fortune - thats good. But realize everyone isn’t one the same economic plane. I’m not complaining; in the world economy, my standard of living has been better than the majority most of my life, so it isn’t fair for me to compare myself to all the folks I pass on the Washington DC beltway who are driving Mercedes and BMW’s and can afford to pay for “service”. Don’t get me wrong, service is a good thing, but remember, it is a luxury to many - and this has never been a cheap hobby.
Here in Germany, we see a kind of resurrection of the good old LHS. People who are prepared to spend a little fortune on their trains, seem again to appreciate the service a good LHS offers. With ongoing quality issues, people also like too see what they are about to buy, before cashing out those 500 to 800 $ for a loco. Going back to good old values?
I have no problem paying MSRP and sales tax at my LHS for items they have in stock. I enjoy sifting through boxes of structures, detail parts, and resale shelves. I enjoy the banter and listening to the talk amongst the other modellers. I enjoy chatting with the guys behind the counter and asking for their advice on balkly loco’s and other tips and techniques. This all comes with a price and if it means I help keep a local business open that employs local people, I’m happy to do my part.
Do I buy things on the internet and shop around? Of course. But I’m tired of the philosophy that if it can be found cheaper on the internet then screw the LHS. Like any other shop, if I find that the LHS doesn’t appreciate my business I’ll go elsewhere. Until then I’ll do my part to keep them around. I sorely miss the local record / CD shops, book stores, etc.
From what I have seen of the cost of German/European loco’s etc, they have been about double the cost of Americn equivelents historically, so maybe y’all are more prepared for that higher cost. Certainly American trains as a rule have more engines pulling them, often 3 to 6 engines, especially in the mountains, where as German trains have 1 or 2 loco’s on the front from what I recall watching trains during my 4 trips there. So in Germany a modeler on the average probably buys and uses far less engines for European modeling.
Plus, the scale of economy is different. An Austailian modeler was chiding Americans last week about how we don’t have the stomach for 200 - 300 dollar engines here in America, many of us, where as they are used to them costing that much for a single diesel. But thats like saying we can’t handle $6-7/gallon gas that you may have in Germany or England. But since our economy is scaled to gasoline price at half of other countries, doubling the price of gas would cripple our economy because it isn’t scaled to that, and it would be terrible shock to adjust to it. Overseas, countries have been scaled to that for years and years, same for the hobby. So it really is an Apples and Oranges thing.
Perhaps people have the “it can be found cheaper” philosophy out of necessity, ever think of that? People who have plenty of money take it for granted. My wife, who is from a poor working class town in En
If they would purchase it at the Hobby Shop - you could test it to be sure it worked !
The trade off we do to save a BUCK!
BOB H -
I wouldn’t mind spending that extra buck if the shop stocked the new items beyond the canceled orders or orders that wasn’t picked up…Why should I buy something from my LHS that I can’t use just because its in stock? That is exactly what drove me to the Internet shops…I don’t preorder since as you noted it could take months or years before the model hits the shelf or the shop’s order is shorten because his credit line isn’t the best…
So,in the end it may not be the buck we save as much as it is the availability.